Have Seton Hall's Freshman hit the wall?

[BigmanU]

It usually happens around this time.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I wouldn't say so. The Frosh still seem to be playing well; they all seem to be gamers. If anything I think Willard has hit the wall. Some questionable decisions about who's on the court, how much and when. I don't understand why Sina even plays. I just don't think he's an adequate BE caliber player. And if not for Gibbs this team would be battling CU for 9th.

But with all that, it's a long season. They can still right the ship. Getting Whitehead back should infuse some energy. And if he does come back and they win some games, I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt if on the bubble (taking into consideration that missed time).

[BigmanU]

I wouldn't say so. The Frosh still seem to be playing well; they all seem to be gamers. If anything I think Willard has hit the wall. Some questionable decisions about who's on the court, how much and when. I don't understand why Sina even plays. I just don't think he's an adequate BE caliber player. And if not for Gibbs this team would be battling CU for 9th.

But with all that, it's a long season. They can still right the ship. Getting Whitehead back should infuse some energy. And if he does come back and they win some games, I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt if on the bubble (taking into consideration that missed time).

I agree with a lot of your points. I really don't like criticizing the kids but, Sina has been having a tough go for a while.

I've taken a liken to this group and its hard to what them struggle. Who do suggest a good replacement (starter) would be until Whitehead returns, Desi Rodriguez? I assume not Carrington because he is a great spark off the bench.

[redmen9194]

When you are in a good league, it is very tough to win with freshmen - even superstar freshmen. The Big East has always been brutal on young players, regardless of talent.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I wouldn't say so. The Frosh still seem to be playing well; they all seem to be gamers. If anything I think Willard has hit the wall. Some questionable decisions about who's on the court, how much and when. I don't understand why Sina even plays. I just don't think he's an adequate BE caliber player. And if not for Gibbs this team would be battling CU for 9th.

But with all that, it's a long season. They can still right the ship. Getting Whitehead back should infuse some energy. And if he does come back and they win some games, I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt if on the bubble (taking into consideration that missed time).

I agree with a lot of your points. I really don't like criticizing the kids but, Sina has been having a tough go for a while.

I've taken a liken to this group and its hard to what them struggle. Who do suggest a good replacement (starter) would be until Whitehead returns, Desi Rodriguez? I assume not Carrington because he is a great spark off the bench.

I am a big believer in whoever are your best players need to see the most time (regardless of position, and regardless of who starts). If you are a good coach you should be able to figure out the scheme to make it work around the skills of your best 6-7 players. Some eye popping #'s about SHU's last 5 games.

Sina:
Min's/Game - 36 avg.
PPG - 4.4
FG% - 21%
3Pt. % - 17%
Pts. / Min - 0.12

Carrington:
Min's - 26 avg.
PPG - 11
Pts./Min - 0.42

Rodriguez:
Min's- 16
PPG - 6.8
Pts./Min. - 0.43

I know that scoring isn't the end all-be-all, but Rodriguez and Carrington pass the eye test to me. Bad offensive players need to have some other outstanding trait. Think of Bowen at Gtwn or Woods at Butler. I don't think either are very good on the offensive end but both are invaluable to their squads (defense/rebounding/energy/intangibles). What does Sina do well if he can't put the ball in the basket?

This question is all the more critical when you try to figure out who's going to replace Whitehead offensively. I'm not meaning to put all of this at the feet of Sina--it's Willard's fault. When you have a guy shooting 30% for the year, who does not seem to have the physical skill, athleticism or toughness to compete in a league that demands such, and you are still are playing him 36 mins a game? Doesn't that seem like he is setting he kid up to fail? Granted I have not seen all of their games. But from what I've seen from Carrington and Rodriguez, why not give them both 5 min's more a game and cut Sina back 10? Let Sina spell Gibbs and find someone else who can put the rock in the hoop. Just one man's opinion.

[Hall2012]

I don't think so. The freshmen have actually been some of most consistent players on the team. If you look at this 3 game losing streak, in 2 of the games they were really done in by awful performances by some of their veterans. In the 1st Butler game, Brandon Mobley shot 1-15 from the field in 35 minutes. Then in the DePaul game, Sterling Gibbs shot 2-16 from the field and 0-7 from three in 33 minutes. If they both just put in their average performances, both of those games turn into comfortable wins and this current "crisis" doesn't exist. Even slightly below average performances from those guys probably still turn those 2 losses into 2 wins. Most teams are gonna lose a game when one of its top 2 players puts up a complete stinker.

Don't get me wrong, the freshmen have had some off days themselves, but they're also not putting up 15-16 shots by themselves when the ball clearly isn't falling for them. I get the idea to want to keep shooting and get yourself going, but a veteran player needs to be able to recognize when it's not his night and try to get some teammates involved instead.

So no, I don't think the freshman have hit a wall. I think the team as a whole is lacking in confidence right now.

[Piratefan]

I can't speak as to whether the freshmen have hit the wall but I and many Pirate fans certainly have!

[hoyahooligan]

I wouldn't say so. The Frosh still seem to be playing well; they all seem to be gamers. If anything I think Willard has hit the wall. Some questionable decisions about who's on the court, how much and when. I don't understand why Sina even plays. I just don't think he's an adequate BE caliber player. And if not for Gibbs this team would be battling CU for 9th.

But with all that, it's a long season. They can still right the ship. Getting Whitehead back should infuse some energy. And if he does come back and they win some games, I think they'll get the benefit of the doubt if on the bubble (taking into consideration that missed time).

I agree with a lot of your points. I really don't like criticizing the kids but, Sina has been having a tough go for a while.

I've taken a liken to this group and its hard to what them struggle. Who do suggest a good replacement (starter) would be until Whitehead returns, Desi Rodriguez? I assume not Carrington because he is a great spark off the bench.

I am a big believer in whoever are your best players need to see the most time (regardless of position, and regardless of who starts). If you are a good coach you should be able to figure out the scheme to make it work around the skills of your best 6-7 players. Some eye popping #'s about SHU's last 5 games.

Sina:
Min's/Game - 36 avg.
PPG - 4.4
FG% - 21%
3Pt. % - 17%
Pts. / Min - 0.12

Carrington:
Min's - 26 avg.
PPG - 11
Pts./Min - 0.42

Rodriguez:
Min's- 16
PPG - 6.8
Pts./Min. - 0.43

I know that scoring isn't the end all-be-all, but Rodriguez and Carrington pass the eye test to me. Bad offensive players need to have some other outstanding trait. Think of Bowen at Gtwn or Woods at Butler. I don't think either are very good on the offensive end but both are invaluable to their squads (defense/rebounding/energy/intangibles). What does Sina do well if he can't put the ball in the basket?

This question is all the more critical when you try to figure out who's going to replace Whitehead offensively. I'm not meaning to put all of this at the feet of Sina--it's Willard's fault. When you have a guy shooting 30% for the year, who does not seem to have the physical skill, athleticism or toughness to compete in a league that demands such, and you are still are playing him 36 mins a game? Doesn't that seem like he is setting he kid up to fail? Granted I have not seen all of their games. But from what I've seen from Carrington and Rodriguez, why not give them both 5 min's more a game and cut Sina back 10? Let Sina spell Gibbs and find someone else who can put the rock in the hoop. Just one man's opinion.

Not to derail this thread but, Bowen is averaging 6.7 pts/game with a 110.3 offensive rating.

I don't think the Seton Hall freshman have hit the wall, it's just a tough conference and they've lost some games. Comparing their production from the st. john's and Villanova games and then next 5.

Delgado: then 8.5pts since 11.2 pts
Carrington: Then 14pts since 11pts
Rodriguez: Then 4pts since 6.8pts

There doesn't seem to be much drop off at all.

It's the others who have dropped off:
Gibbs: Then 22.5pts since 15.6pts
Mobley: Then 11.5pts since 9.8pts
Sina: Then 9pts since 4.4 pts

Defense those first two games allowed 0.975 pts/possession since then they've allowed 1.116.
Offense they've score 1.1pts/possession those first two games since then they've scored 0.998 pt/s possession.

so I think the defense has fallen off more than the offense has.

[Jet915]

That being said, when is Whitehead coming back?

[Hall2012]

That being said, when is Whitehead coming back?

The most recently announced target date is February 3rd @ DePaul. However, the initial target date was January 13th vs Butler and it's been pushed back several times since then, so nobody really knows.