UConn escape plan - The Big East

[Bill Marsh]

No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Most thought Louisville was going to the ACC or Big 12 once the Big East fell apart. TCU was an obvious candidate to leave from the second realignment started with its football success and recruiting ground. Look at TCU's history. Utah was also the best western candidate from a football perspective that didn't diminish the Pac-10/12 brand.

Have you been to Rentschler? Calling it a dump is a little harsh, but it's a very basic stadium nowhere near campus. It's a good size for a stadium, so every seat is solid, but parking is just brutal.

The only conference UConn makes any sense for geographically and academically is the ACC. If it becomes an AAU school, things may change for the Big Ten, but those are also the two worst Power 5 conferences for football and probably won't want a program that's never won more than 9 games and has declined without Randy Edsall. Maybe the Big 12, but it's just so far away from every other school in that league. I guess that's the case with the AAC as well.

Mack, I think you misunderstood my point about Rutgers, Louisvile, TCU, and Utah. I wasn't talking necessarily about whether anyone saw the invites coming at the time they happened but some years in advance. Let's say 10 years in advance.

Rutgers - No one saw this one coming even a day in advance of the announcement.

Louisville - Once West Virginia got the Big XII invite, Louisville was in Limbo. That's where they were expected to get an invite. When it didn't happen, it seemed they were screwed unless the Big XII changed it's mind about 10 members. No one expected the ACC to break it's rule of sticking to teams on the Atlantic Coast. (Notre Dame is the obvious school they'd make an exception for, but that was seen as an exception.) Louisville was also thought to not be acceptable to the ACC because of their academics. Their selection was a surprise.

TCU - for many this was a surprise because the Big XII already had the Texas market locked up. As a smaller private school, it didn't seem that they added anything despite the fact that they have a good football program. Many thought that the Big XII would look to expand their markets since this was an obvious problem with their members outside Texas - especially after they lost Colorado, one of their 2 biggest markets outside Texas.

Utah - Were they really an obvious pick before Urban Meyer turned their football program into a winner? They were the 2nd best program in a state smaller than CT.

Looking 10 years in advance of these schools' selections is important because UConn isn't positioning themselves for an invitation tomorrow. They're taking the long view by investing in their facilities and by upgrading their programs. If Diaco is successful in doing for UConn football what was done at TCU, Utah, Boise, Louisville, etc, would that change their profile in 8-10 years? I would think it would.

As for the UConn stadium, it is off campus. So is Miami's. If everything else is up to par, that won't matter. The stadium is expandable. If UConn can build a winner and demand for tickets increases, they can do what Rutgers did and add 10,000 seats to bring it to 50K. The stadium's infrastructure is still fairly Ne's, so while expanding, they can also give the rest of it a face lift and add other amenities.

Those who want to make UConn appear to be an unattractive candidate are looking for negatives. The basic qualities that conferences are seeking are already there - state flagship in a good size state, excellent academics, good market, devoted following, good financing, high level of commitment both from boosters and from the state. Anything else like the stadium can be built or improved.

One final comment about UConn's market. One this gets brought up, too often the Hartford/New Haven market is referenced, which is nonsense. The entire state is UConn's market as well as some portions of surrounding states. Tell me another state of 3.6 million that has only one state university commanding the state's entire attention in the P5. Other than Ohio, it doesn't exist. As far as markets, there isn't a better expansion candidate out there.

Rutgers was a BCS school from day one and if you notice none of the original BCS schools were left out in the cold. (Temple was booted from the BCS in 2003)

If you didn't see Rutgers getting a seat at the table then you don't know jack about realignment. Guess what, if the B1G expanded with Maryland and UConn then Rutgers would have gotten that call from the ACC. Large land grant research university in the NYC TV market (it is and no matter how much you bitch and complain it's not going to change the fact that it is the only big school in that market.) who has been respectable in football the last decade. They were being taken by a F5 conference. This isn't USF, Temple or Cincy we're talking about here. Rutgers was getting a seat at the table.

So, anyone who didn't see Rutgers getting a seat at the table doesn't know Jack about realignment? Well, you were the only one who saw Rutgers getting an invitation. No one else saw it coming.

Let's review a few basic facts.

1. Rutgers was invited o the Big Ten in November, 2012.

2. Despite all the rumors swirling around about realignment in 2012, everyone was taken by surprise when the B1G made. its announcement that it was taking Rutgers and Maryland. It was a well guarded secret. But you saw it coming?

3. If the Big Ten had expanded with UConn, the ACC would have taken Rutgers? Why? The B1G decision was about markets. The ACC decision was about upgrading football. Why wouldn't the ACC have made the same decision to take Louiscille. In 2012, Louisville (11-2) was Big East champs, playing in the Sugar Bowl. Rutgers (9-4) was an also ran. Louisville was the better football upgrade.

4. By 2012, Greg Schiano was gone. Before him, Rutgers football was horrible. As a result, there were a lot of misgivings about the future of their football program. To make matters worse, their basketball program was terrible as well. Those things didn't matter to the Big Ten, but they did matter to the ACC.

There was no seat at the table being saved for anyone. If there was, TCU and Utah wouldn't have been taken before Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt. The Big Ten certainly didn't expand so that Rutgers could get a seat at the table. Rutgers was simply in the right place at the right time.

[Bill Marsh]

Gotta say, Bill Marsh and NJRedman are 2 of my favorite posters, so I'm enjoying this Holy Land sparring.

I feel like Charlie Sheen in Platoon... pulled between Barnes and Elias... and I'm gonna say Bill M is the Willem Dafoe character, and Redman is Tom Berenger...

Sorry to disappoint and not keep this thing going, but I'm not responding to NJ Reedman's last post. Only someone with little are no self-respect would subject themselves to his insult-laced tirade. I occasionally post here for the fun of talking basketball and BE sports, not so I can revert to being a 7th grader and engage in a name calling war. Good luck to him on that one.

[Noonzy]

You guys are beating this UConn thing to death. Why would the presidents of the PRIVATE schools in the Big East allow any school which is funded by the state to be allowed in the Big East. They would have an unfair advantage. The state pays all of the faculty's salaries and funds most everything, while the private schools fund themselves. UConn is not coming through that door.

[Noonzy]

You guys are beating this UConn thing to death. Why would the presidents of the PRIVATE schools in the Big East allow any school which is funded by the state to be allowed in the Big East. They would have an unfair advantage. The state pays all of the faculty's salaries and funds most everything, while the private schools fund themselves. UConn is not coming through that door.

[Xudash]

A thread from the WVA board, which was concerning itself with the possible expansion of the Big XII and where UC (Cincy) stood in that discussion:

http://westvirginia.scout.com/forums/4582-big12-conference/13484827-the-cincinnati-bearcats-my-case/165730227?s=159

Scroll down to MidwestConnection's table for a not so bad comparison of some of the candidates.

BTW, I like the phrase "tallest midget." Not bad as a descriptor.

[NJRedman]

Gotta say, Bill Marsh and NJRedman are 2 of my favorite posters, so I'm enjoying this Holy Land sparring.

I feel like Charlie Sheen in Platoon... pulled between Barnes and Elias... and I'm gonna say Bill M is the Willem Dafoe character, and Redman is Tom Berenger...

Sorry to disappoint and not keep this thing going, but I'm not responding to NJ Reedman's last post. Only someone with little are no self-respect would subject themselves to his insult-laced tirade. I occasionally post here for the fun of talking basketball and BE sports, not so I can revert to being a 7th grader and engage in a name calling war. Good luck to him on that one.

Occasionally? hahahaha You have the second most posts out of anyone and only second to Stever! You're a joke.

[NJRedman]

Mack, I think you misunderstood my point about Rutgers, Louisvile, TCU, and Utah. I wasn't talking necessarily about whether anyone saw the invites coming at the time they happened but some years in advance. Let's say 10 years in advance.

Rutgers - No one saw this one coming even a day in advance of the announcement.

Louisville - Once West Virginia got the Big XII invite, Louisville was in Limbo. That's where they were expected to get an invite. When it didn't happen, it seemed they were screwed unless the Big XII changed it's mind about 10 members. No one expected the ACC to break it's rule of sticking to teams on the Atlantic Coast. (Notre Dame is the obvious school they'd make an exception for, but that was seen as an exception.) Louisville was also thought to not be acceptable to the ACC because of their academics. Their selection was a surprise.

TCU - for many this was a surprise because the Big XII already had the Texas market locked up. As a smaller private school, it didn't seem that they added anything despite the fact that they have a good football program. Many thought that the Big XII would look to expand their markets since this was an obvious problem with their members outside Texas - especially after they lost Colorado, one of their 2 biggest markets outside Texas.

Utah - Were they really an obvious pick before Urban Meyer turned their football program into a winner? They were the 2nd best program in a state smaller than CT.

Looking 10 years in advance of these schools' selections is important because UConn isn't positioning themselves for an invitation tomorrow. They're taking the long view by investing in their facilities and by upgrading their programs. If Diaco is successful in doing for UConn football what was done at TCU, Utah, Boise, Louisville, etc, would that change their profile in 8-10 years? I would think it would.

As for the UConn stadium, it is off campus. So is Miami's. If everything else is up to par, that won't matter. The stadium is expandable. If UConn can build a winner and demand for tickets increases, they can do what Rutgers did and add 10,000 seats to bring it to 50K. The stadium's infrastructure is still fairly Ne's, so while expanding, they can also give the rest of it a face lift and add other amenities.

Those who want to make UConn appear to be an unattractive candidate are looking for negatives. The basic qualities that conferences are seeking are already there - state flagship in a good size state, excellent academics, good market, devoted following, good financing, high level of commitment both from boosters and from the state. Anything else like the stadium can be built or improved.

One final comment about UConn's market. One this gets brought up, too often the Hartford/New Haven market is referenced, which is nonsense. The entire state is UConn's market as well as some portions of surrounding states. Tell me another state of 3.6 million that has only one state university commanding the state's entire attention in the P5. Other than Ohio, it doesn't exist. As far as markets, there isn't a better expansion candidate out there.

Rutgers was a BCS school from day one and if you notice none of the original BCS schools were left out in the cold. (Temple was booted from the BCS in 2003)

If you didn't see Rutgers getting a seat at the table then you don't know jack about realignment. Guess what, if the B1G expanded with Maryland and UConn then Rutgers would have gotten that call from the ACC. Large land grant research university in the NYC TV market (it is and no matter how much you bitch and complain it's not going to change the fact that it is the only big school in that market.) who has been respectable in football the last decade. They were being taken by a F5 conference. This isn't USF, Temple or Cincy we're talking about here. Rutgers was getting a seat at the table.

So, anyone who didn't see Rutgers getting a seat at the table doesn't know Jack about realignment? Well, you were the only one who saw Rutgers getting an invitation. No one else saw it coming.

Let's review a few basic facts.

1. Rutgers was invited o the Big Ten in November, 2012.

2. Despite all the rumors swirling around about realignment in 2012, everyone was taken by surprise when the B1G made. its announcement that it was taking Rutgers and Maryland. It was a well guarded secret. But you saw it coming?

3. If the Big Ten had expanded with UConn, the ACC would have taken Rutgers? Why? The B1G decision was about markets. The ACC decision was about upgrading football. Why wouldn't the ACC have made the same decision to take Louiscille. In 2012, Louisville (11-2) was Big East champs, playing in the Sugar Bowl. Rutgers (9-4) was an also ran. Louisville was the better football upgrade.

4. By 2012, Greg Schiano was gone. Before him, Rutgers football was horrible. As a result, there were a lot of misgivings about the future of their football program. To make matters worse, their basketball program was terrible as well. Those things didn't matter to the Big Ten, but they did matter to the ACC.

There was no seat at the table being saved for anyone. If there was, TCU and Utah wouldn't have been taken before Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pitt. The Big Ten certainly didn't expand so that Rutgers could get a seat at the table. Rutgers was simply in the right place at the right time.

I didn't say I knew they were going to the B1G, I just knew they weren't going to be left out in the cold and guess what, they weren't!

Also, TCU wasn't taken before Pitt and Cuse. They left after the Big East added TCU.

Rutgers has been to what, 8 bowls in the last 10 years? Yeah Rutgers football was horrible. If Rutgers football was horrible then UConns current FB situation is the worst FB team ever. How is UConn gonna get an invite with such a pathetic football program?

Go ahead and not address my other post because I use things like FACTS to shoot down your stupid ideas that BYU is anything like Notre Dame and prefers to be a G5 school.

Oh and UConn was favored as the 14th member of the ACC until Clemson and FSU demanded an actual FB school be taken. Rutgers is a FB school, in the ACC foot print with a great TV market that the ACC didn't have (look at them moving into Barclays for proof they want that market), with great academics and a large alumni base. Yeah, why would the ACC look at them? I mean the B1G took them but the ACC surely would have passed. You are clueless about everything you post. Seriously.

[billyjack]

Gotta say, Bill Marsh and NJRedman are 2 of my favorite posters, so I'm enjoying this Holy Land sparring.

I feel like Charlie Sheen in Platoon... pulled between Barnes and Elias... and I'm gonna say Bill M is the Willem Dafoe character, and Redman is Tom Berenger...

Sorry to disappoint and not keep this thing going, but I'm not responding to NJ Reedman's last post. Only someone with little are no self-respect would subject themselves to his insult-laced tirade. I occasionally post here for the fun of talking basketball and BE sports, not so I can revert to being a 7th grader and engage in a name calling war. Good luck to him on that one.

Occasionally? hahahaha You have the second most posts out of anyone and only second to Stever! You're a joke.

Ok, now you're sliding into the Kevin Dillon character territory...

[JOPO]

I didn't say I knew they were going to the B1G, I just knew they weren't going to be left out in the cold and guess what, they weren't!

Also, TCU wasn't taken before Pitt and Cuse. They left after the Big East added TCU.

Rutgers has been to what, 8 bowls in the last 10 years? Yeah Rutgers football was horrible. If Rutgers football was horrible then UConns current FB situation is the worst FB team ever. How is UConn gonna get an invite with such a pathetic football program?

Go ahead and not address my other post because I use things like FACTS to shoot down your stupid ideas that BYU is anything like Notre Dame and prefers to be a G5 school.

Oh and UConn was favored as the 14th member of the ACC until Clemson and FSU demanded an actual FB school be taken. Rutgers is a FB school, in the ACC foot print with a great TV market that the ACC didn't have (look at them moving into Barclays for proof they want that market), with great academics and a large alumni base. Yeah, why would the ACC look at them? I mean the B1G took them but the ACC surely would have passed. You are clueless about everything you post. Seriously.

Rutgers is a school that has a football team. They are not however a "football school" and never will be. They are basically a girl's basketball school...barely. Rutgers is NOT in the NYC market either (I'm not the only one who thinks that either as a former Big East AD also said the same thing). They are a central Jersey school that is somewhere in between NYC and Philly and neither is is laying claim to them. They have a large alumni base that doesn't support the teams they have with either fannies in seats or check writing. I doubt Clemson and FSU even know where Rutgers is located, most people don't. I used to watch Big Ten football but since they watered down the product with the addition of RU I no longer watch. So much for gaining NYC media market fans! The Big Ten didn't need to add Rutgers to get the NYC market, they were already watching. Great academics and Rutgers is rarely if ever seen in the same sentence. For most in New Jersey it is a fall back option and not a first choice.

Additionally UConn actually won a Big East Championship and went to a BCS bowl. The same cannot be said of Rutgers. The ACC "footprint" does not include New Jersey (or New York, Massachusetts or Pennsylvania), it is a southern conference that recently admitted some northern schools.

Bottom line, Rutgers does not belong in the Big Ten, the ACC or the Big East. They are a mid-major school at best who never should have left the A-10.

[NJRedman]

I didn't say I knew they were going to the B1G, I just knew they weren't going to be left out in the cold and guess what, they weren't!

Also, TCU wasn't taken before Pitt and Cuse. They left after the Big East added TCU.

Rutgers has been to what, 8 bowls in the last 10 years? Yeah Rutgers football was horrible. If Rutgers football was horrible then UConns current FB situation is the worst FB team ever. How is UConn gonna get an invite with such a pathetic football program?

Go ahead and not address my other post because I use things like FACTS to shoot down your stupid ideas that BYU is anything like Notre Dame and prefers to be a G5 school.

Oh and UConn was favored as the 14th member of the ACC until Clemson and FSU demanded an actual FB school be taken. Rutgers is a FB school, in the ACC foot print with a great TV market that the ACC didn't have (look at them moving into Barclays for proof they want that market), with great academics and a large alumni base. Yeah, why would the ACC look at them? I mean the B1G took them but the ACC surely would have passed. You are clueless about everything you post. Seriously.

Rutgers is a school that has a football team. They are not however a "football school" and never will be. They are basically a girl's basketball school...barely. Rutgers is NOT in the NYC market either (I'm not the only one who thinks that either as a former Big East AD also said the same thing). They are a central Jersey school that is somewhere in between NYC and Philly and neither is is laying claim to them. They have a large alumni base that doesn't support the teams they have with either fannies in seats or check writing. I doubt Clemson and FSU even know where Rutgers is located, most people don't. I used to watch Big Ten football but since they watered down the product with the addition of RU I no longer watch. So much for gaining NYC media market fans! The Big Ten didn't need to add Rutgers to get the NYC market, they were already watching. Great academics and Rutgers is rarely if ever seen in the same sentence. For most in New Jersey it is a fall back option and not a first choice.

Additionally UConn actually won a Big East Championship and went to a BCS bowl. The same cannot be said of Rutgers. The ACC "footprint" does not include New Jersey (or New York, Massachusetts or Pennsylvania), it is a southern conference that recently admitted some northern schools.

Bottom line, Rutgers does not belong in the Big Ten, the ACC or the Big East. They are a mid-major school at best who never should have left the A-10.

The butt hurt is strong in this one.

Rutgers is in the NYC media market. Just like how Seton Hall is in the NYC media market. We all know you guys don't like Rutgers but they are the better FB program than UConn. They are also a quality university and it's funny that a Seton Hall fan would trash talk Rutgers about academics.