The Ball talks Big East basketball

[robinreed]

No way in HELL do we bring in BYU! They are the same as UConn or Cincy right now. They have the wandering eyes and will ditch us in a second for a F5 conference. No way are we dealing with that shit again. That would be a big black eye for the conference to get raided again. NO FB SCHOOLS ALLOWED!!!!

I would be okay with Gonzaga if we can make it work and expand past 12, but no BYU. Never ever ever.

I imagine you'd take Notre Dame and BYU is the same as Notre Dame with regard to football. They're committed to independence. They've turned down a couple of opportunities to play in football conferences. Instead, they're playing with Catholic schools in the West Coast Conference.

If you think they have a wandering eye and are waiting around for an invitation to a P5 conference, then you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with them.

Bill,
I like BYU in basketball as well but how do you propose we deal with the LDS policy of no sports games on Sunday? Currently we do play some games on Sunday and the LDS church refuses to permit such play at or by BYU. I know they are excused from playing Sunday games in the WCC currently. Do you believe the BE would adopt that policy also? I have my doubts.

[TheBall]

Little details such as not playing games in Sunday can be overcome.

Bill, I strongly disagree that we should be adding teams like umass, vcu or dayton. Those are warm bodies for the sake of adding warm bodies. Keep it at ten until the right fights come along. Right now those are not the right fits. Don't dilute the product.

But now, back to the current conference. Part of what I love is the 9 teams, round robin format. Back when the big east was a 16 team conference I would only follow about a half dozen teams and keep track of the bubble. With the slimmed down league, I find myself watching all 9 teams that are actually trying in the conference.

When the big east went to 16 back in 2004, a big concern was that it would become "unwieldy" and would lose some of its conference feel. And while the conference was a huge success, it did lose some of its conference feel. The new version has that intimate comradarie back. I like watching xavier versus fgcu and actually paying attention and caring. The ten team affiliation is beautiful right now.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Little details such as not playing games in Sunday can be overcome.

Bill, I strongly disagree that we should be adding teams like umass, vcu or dayton. Those are warm bodies for the sake of adding warm bodies. Keep it at ten until the right fights come along. Right now those are not the right fits. Don't dilute the product.

But now, back to the current conference. Part of what I love is the 9 teams, round robin format. Back when the big east was a 16 team conference I would only follow about a half dozen teams and keep track of the bubble. With the slimmed down league, I find myself watching all 9 teams that are actually trying in the conference.

When the big east went to 16 back in 2004, a big concern was that it would become "unwieldy" and would lose some of its conference feel. And while the conference was a huge success, it did lose some of its conference feel. The new version has that intimate comradarie back. I like watching xavier versus fgcu and actually paying attention and caring. The ten team affiliation is beautiful right now.

Couldn't agree more. We are not being pressured to add anyone. We do not need to "add" in order to "survive", ala the ACC/Old Big East. Let the P5 power stuggle play out. UAB was the first domino to fall. They will not be the last. There will be a number of schools that will no longer be able to pump money into weak football programs. Michigan will be paying close to $10 million per year for Jim Harbaugh. Alabama will increase Saban's salary to match or overtake it. 10 years ago, the highest paid coach was $3 million (Bob Stoops). Today, that figure is three times that.

If Cincinnati and/or Memphis leave the American, UCONN will not try and wait out their process of getting a competitive football program against ECU, Tulsa, Tulane, USF, UCF, Temple, SMU and Houston. They will not be able to keep treading water. The Big East would be their only life raft to survive.

We can afford to wait. Let's be patient.

[Bill Marsh]

No current league is "coast-to-coast." While conferences cover more ground than they used to, they are still pretty regional. I expect the Big East to remain in its current footprint.

That's the way it looks to us here in the East and in the Midwest where cities are relatively close together. But "regional" out West has a whole different meaning and it usually involves long distances. If The Big East expanded with Gonzaga, the longest distance in air miles would be:

2270 miles (Providence - Spokane)

But that wouldn't even be the longest distance from end-to-end of any conference. That honor already belongs to The Big West:

2463 miles (Sacramento - Honolulu)

And the Big West isn't the only conference that spans more than 2000 miles. The WAC also has that kind of expanse:

2013 miles (Seattle, WA - Brownsville, TX)

Others aren't far behind:

1757 miles (Norfolk - El Paso in CUSA)
1500 miles (Hartford - Lubbock, TX in The American)

In addition, you have to ask yourself why major conferences like the Big (Lincoln - New Brunswick), the ACC ( Boston - Miami), and the Big 12 (Morgantown - Waco) have expanded as far as they have. The answer?

Because they can.

In a world where air travel at 500-600 mph is routine, travel is totally different than it was when these conferences were built around travel by train and bus at 60 mph when a trip for Philadelphia to Hanover, NH in the Ivy League was a big deal.

[Bill Marsh]

If Cincinnati and/or Memphis leave the American, UCONN will not try and wait out their process of getting a competitive football program against ECU, Tulsa, Tulane, USF, UCF, Temple, SMU and Houston. They will not be able to keep treading water. The Big East would be their only life raft to survive.

We can afford to wait. Let's be patient.

I live near UConn andI can tell you that this is absolutely not true.

1. CT invested almost $100 million in the new UConn stadium + "in kind" contributions. They are not simply walking away from football.

2. The commitment is about much more than football. CT is intent on building a top tier public research university. Football is only one part of the formula to get there. They have also made major investments in research, especially in a human genome project. They will pursue this until it is accomplished and that will mean getting into a P5 conference. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when".

[Bill Marsh]

Little details such as not playing games in Sunday can be overcome.

Bill, I strongly disagree that we should be adding teams like umass, vcu or dayton. Those are warm bodies for the sake of adding warm bodies. Keep it at ten until the right fights come along. Right now those are not the right fits. Don't dilute the product.

But now, back to the current conference. Part of what I love is the 9 teams, round robin format. Back when the big east was a 16 team conference I would only follow about a half dozen teams and keep track of the bubble. With the slimmed down league, I find myself watching all 9 teams that are actually trying in the conference.

When the big east went to 16 back in 2004, a big concern was that it would become "unwieldy" and would lose some of its conference feel. And while the conference was a huge success, it did lose some of its conference feel. The new version has that intimate comradarie back. I like watching xavier versus fgcu and actually paying attention and caring. The ten team affiliation is beautiful right now.

Disagreement is okay with me, Ball. It makes the world go 'round. Besides, I may be wrong.

I appreciate what you're saying and agree with much of it. I too prefer a 10 team conference. It's just not where college sports are these days..

I believe that expansion at least to 12 is inevitable and all the early signals out of the conference up until about a year ago were that this would happen. I doubt that's changed. They've just decided to lay low for a while and be quiet about it. While I'd much prefer to see them add Gonzaga + BYU and be done with it, I suspect that they'll get to 12with 2 eastern schools.

VCU a warm body? A team that went to the Final Four just 3 years ago, gets to the tournament 2/3 of the time in the last decade or so and averages 25 wins a year in the same period? I don't think that's a warm body. A Dayton program that brings in 12-13,000 fans per game even with mediocre teams is a warm body? No way. Maybe UMass is a warm body. Butthey'rethe same as UConn '79. That kind of potential simply can't be ignored.

[Bill Marsh]

No way in HELL do we bring in BYU! They are the same as UConn or Cincy right now. They have the wandering eyes and will ditch us in a second for a F5 conference. No way are we dealing with that shit again. That would be a big black eye for the conference to get raided again. NO FB SCHOOLS ALLOWED!!!!

I would be okay with Gonzaga if we can make it work and expand past 12, but no BYU. Never ever ever.

I imagine you'd take Notre Dame and BYU is the same as Notre Dame with regard to football. They're committed to independence. They've turned down a couple of opportunities to play in football conferences. Instead, they're playing with Catholic schools in the West Coast Conference.

If you think they have a wandering eye and are waiting around for an invitation to a P5 conference, then you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on with them.

You can't honestly tell me that you believe that they'd turn down the Big 12 if they came offering, can you? If they had the chance to put all of their sports into a major conference, why wouldn't they? Particularly when they could tap into a major recruiting pipeline of Texas.

It's highly likely that they've already turned down the Big XII more than once.at least the people who cover. This stuff seem to think so.

[Bill Marsh]

I would hold out for Uconn as I believe that it will be forced to de-emphasize or drop football. 11 schools is ideal as we can keep home and homes which is yet another distinctive characteristic of the BE. It likely makes more sense to establish a conference-wide, long term scheduling agreement with Gonzaga, BYU, WSU, and VCU or the like.

Don't hold your breath on UConn. At least if you value your ability to breathe. UConn is not coming.

[R Jay]

You can't honestly tell me that you believe that they'd turn down the Big 12 if they came offering, can you? If they had the chance to put all of their sports into a major conference, why wouldn't they? Particularly when they could tap into a major recruiting pipeline of Texas.

It's highly likely that they've already turned down the Big XII more than once.at least the people who cover. This stuff seem to think so.

I've looked all afternoon for anything that confirms that they were offered a spot in the Big 12 and I couldn't find anything credible either way. I guess I'll keep my opinion on this and let you keep yours if you so desire.

[TheBall]

Here is why I think umass, vcu and dayton are no more than warm bodies:

Vcu - strong program currently, and they were okay prior to,shaka, but they really are a johnny come lately program. Ten years ago they were nothing. Also, from a prestige vantage, they are a secondary state school in a southern state. We don't need ECU, Ucf, usf, or any of those other similar profile schools. Just a bad fit all around, reminds me of when we were going to add Boise state just because they were hot at the time. You make a move because the school cites, not because it has had a nice five year run. Their current brand is respectable, but it is so new that I am sceptic all about biting on a geographical outlier with an institutional mission more closely resembling what we see in conference of Americans. Same goes for wichita state.

Umass - I could get over the state school thing for the right school, but umass is not that school. Geographically they fit, but that's about it. No state support financially for basketball. Very little state pride in umass (they have a stigma like rutgers has due to so many local private colleges as better options for high school kids). They don't have any fans, don't deliver the Boston market at all. They actually have a pretty negative stigma athletics wise in Boston and would hurt the perception of the conference.

Dayton - they fit institutionally. They have good fans. They have good institutional support. Of the three, this is clearly the best pick. But they would be a second team from Ohio, and don't really deliver a market. They don't have any national brand. Heck, when I think of atlantic ten mediocrity, this is the team that comes to mind. Like umass, I see the, hurting the big east brand much more than helping conference's perception. Since 1985 they have only advanced past the first round three times, and last yr was the only time they made it past the second round. They have only made the dance five times in the past 25 years. That's not something we need to jump on today.

Dayton has a chance to increase their profile, and If dayton is eventually added, I wouldn't be too upset. But right now I think there is a Reason they are still on the outside, and I agree with that reason. If dayton turns it around, has another good four years with tourney bids and tourney wins and increased brand, then I would be happy to add them. But not yet anyway.

Dayton and umass would reinforce the critics who claim the big east is not a top notch conference, as they both reek of mid-majordom. vcu is just too new a brand and doesn't have enough other similarities other than some recent hoops success. No need to jump too soon on any of these teams. They will be around later.

We are under no pressure to expand in 2015 or 2016 or even 2018. If it appears that expansion is necessary down the line, then wait it out and re-evaluate. See if Dayton has improved. See if vcu has continued their success. Take a hard look at bYU and gonzaga. And I know you don't think it is likely, but if uconn is not In a real football conference within five years then they are back on the table too. No need to rush, let's keep the options open.

I actually like St. Louis better than any of the vcu and umass, and a little more than dayton (I like the idea of the new market)