The Ball talks Big East basketball

[BigMac]

MTV Generation here, can someone sum up the Ball's post? (Ball's Post. lol.)

[billyjack]

Scout board: Benchwarmers is where you can find some lively Nova Hoops discussion.
https://villanova.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=&fid=1159

Thanks brother.

[TheBall]

Yes, this is THE Ball.

I don't know who this gumbo cat is, but no trolling here. Nothing to troll. There is only one school I am disappointed in right now, and I just don't mention them rather than insult them. Heck, I am even an active and appreciated cintributor to the saint josephs board these days.

Just glad to contribute to the newsgroup.

Just set my TiVo for the hoyas v Hoosiers. Game of the weekend as far as I'm concerned. Go hoyas!

[TheBall]

And for those who I have not met before, I am a villanova fan. I grew up a providence fan. Watching billy the kid light it up in 1987 was what turned me on to college hoops. In high school my family had Boston college season tickets, so I went to a tin of big east games, but I was from a providence family. I used to order the providence journal out of region (before the interweb gave us information right away) just so I could read the box scores and game summaries of dickie simpkins, Michael smith and eric Williams performance on that memorable Rick Barnes team two days after the games were played. Attended nova in the Kerry kittles through howard brown years. Lappas was the coach when I was there, and there were a couple top ten teams, they made the tourney three of the four yrs I was there, and the pavilion was a lot of fun. It is true I have tormented rutgers and Boston college fans in the past, but when programs reach the incredible lows that those programs are suffering it loses some of its luster. They have very few hoops fans left and those who remain deserve credit for sticking it out moreso than ridicule at this point. I have had my disputes with the seton hall rivals moderator, but that is more of a feud between us than any ill will towards the hall. I'm actually real high on the hall right now.

Anyway, like I said, no trolling here. I watch at least five big east games an week and love talking hoops. Looking forward to this newsgroup.

[Bill Marsh]

I'd like to pick up on one point that The Ball made, which is his forecast that The Big East Tournament will continue to grow. I see no reason to expect that to be the case at all if things remain the same.

The tournament never sold out in the old Big East days despite the star power in the league until the conference expanded to 16 teams. Then it sold out for 8 straight years (2006-13). When membership dropped to 10, then attendance dropped for 20,000 per game to 14,500 per game, which is about where it had been back in 1995, last time it was a 10 team league.

The conference really needs to take stock of this situation. Averaging around 15,000 per game in the old days was fine when there was no competition and The Big East was the only game in town. But the ACC and Big Ten are both breathing down our necks now and are desperate to bet into the Garden with the Big Ten even being willing to move their tournament up a week to do so. Despite a long term contract with the Garden to keep the tournament, this needs immediate attention or The Big East will me the one playing it's tourney a week early and eventually facing non-renewal.

College sports is a competitive business these days. The Big East must compete if they want to remain a power conference in basketball. I've been a fan of the 10 member format, but I no longer think that this is viable in a competitive world. The conference must expand.

1. The first choice must be VCU, which has the size and geographic proximity to turn out fans to the tournament
2. The 2nd choice should be either UMass or Dayton. Like VCU, UMass has the size and geographic proximity to turn out fans to the tournament. Dayton has the kind of rabid fan base that travels well and they have the geography to fit neatly into a West division.

The Big East should then try the 12 member format for a few years to see what the impact on attendance is. If 12 doesn't sell out the event, then they should expand to 14. At that point, I would get radical. New York college hoops fans are sophisticated, which is why The Garden sponsors events that will pair 2 teams in a game when neither of them are local. Those games sell tickets because many New Yorkers will pay money to see good college hoops even if they don't have a dog in the fight, but the opponents must be top programs to sell well.

My radical move would be to expand with Gonzaga and BYU. Both have rabid fan bases that will travel well, but they also have appeal beyond their own fan bases. The travel issues can be solved. BYU appears to be committed to football independence, so football should not be a problem. The travel issues are solvable,

Bottom line is that The Big East must sell out the tournament and their tournament must hold on to its position as the premier event in town if the conference wants to remain on top.

[TheBall]

On that point:
I don't think dayton, vcu, Umass, St. Louis or whoever are going to move the needle for the big east tournament. No need to rush on any of them.

I do think that as St. John's, seton hall and providence increase their involvement in the event, the attendance will stabilize. And I have been to many big east tourney games the past decade, and let's face it, many of those were less than capacity despite being sold out. Until you got to later in the week you could always sit in the 300's with an empty seat next to you for your coat.

I woud love to add gonzaga. Not sure if that is logistically possible. I hope it is, but I a, willing to be realistic about it.

uConn is on a five year plan. They are either going to be in a football five conference by 2019 or they will have to make a decision (MAC football or fcs football with a big east hoops home would be an option). They have the divorce money right now, and if they leave to soon they won't get it all. So, They have a little cushion. I only have them at about 20% of landing back in the big east, but outside of the Huskies and gonzaga I don't see any teams worth adding.

Not against St. Louis or vcu, but just don't see them bringing enough to the table this early in the game. Talk to me in 2017 and lets re-evaluate. But as of now no need to rush on those teams.

Umass? Non starter for me. Lack of statewide support, no fans, located even more remote than uconn, lack of institutional funding. Reeks of second class citizen in the Boston market. Doesn't share anything institutionally with the ten current schools (different type of school, different type of academic standard, different type of community atmosphere among the student body (not saying worse, but very different)). They hurt much more than they help.

[Hall2012]

It's important to note that those 8 straight tournament "sellout" you mention were all forced sellouts. Tickets never went on sale to the general public. Because of the massive size of the conference, all of the available tickets to the tournament were given out in the allotments to each school and were thus considered sold whether each school could get rid of them or not, thus making the tournament "sold out" as far as the conference and the garden were concerned before a single ticket ever went on sale.

If any team failed to sell its full allotment, it's remaining tickets were offered to schools that did sell out, and then the school had to eat the cost of any remaining tickets.

So, as the ball mentioned, they were sold out ticket-wise, but not butts in seats - wise. The garden was only at capacity for the final and when either Uconn or Syracuse played.

[Bill Marsh]

On that pint:
I don't think dayton, vcu, Umass, St. Louis or whoever are going to move the needle for the big east tournament. No need to rush on any of them.

I do think that as St. John's, seton hall and providence increase their involvement in the event, the attendance will stabilize. And I have been to many big was tourney games the past decade, and let's face it, many of those were less than capacity despite being sold out. Until you got to later in the week you could always sit in the 300's with an empty seat next to you for your coat.

I woud love to add gonzaga. Not sure if that is logistically possible. I hope it is, but I a, willing to be realistic about it.

uConn is on a five year plan. They are either going to be in a football five conference by 2019 or they will have to make a decision (MAC football or fcs football with a big east hoops home would be an option). They have the divorce money right now, and if they leave to soon they won't get it all. So, They have a little cushion. I only have them at about 20% of landing back in the big east, but outside of the Huskies and gonzaga I don't see any teams worth adding.

Not against St. Louis or vcu, but just don't see them bringing enough to the table this early in the game. Talk to me in 2017 and lets re-evaluate. But as of now no need to rush on those teams.

St. John's Seton Hall, and Providence were all heavily involved 20 years ago when the conference was a 10 team league. All 3 programs were at their peak, but the tournament didn't sell any more tickets than it does today - even with UConn, Syracuse, and other members in close proximity in the mix.

The conference did phenomenally well to sell as many tickets as they did last year. All of the hoopla surrounding the formation of a "new" Big East had to have helped. Attendance could actually decline in the next few years. If it does and if the ?Big ten sells out the Garden when they come to town in 4 years, then the Big East is in serious trouble.

There is no reason why it's not logistically possible to add Gonzaga. It's the 21st when teams travel on chartered jets that fly at 600 mph. 1000 miles in the air today is like 100 miles 50 years ago when teams were traveling on chartered buses that drove at 60 mph. And planes don't get caught in traffic jams the way that buses do.

I live near UConn and I've heard absolutely nothing about a 5 year plan. They are absolutely committed to getting into a power conference as part of their goal to be a top 20 public research university. Waiting for them to join the Big East is a pipe dream.

Can't wait until 2017. The Big East must absolutely move now. The Big Ten is coming in 2018. The Garden is giving the new Big East every opportunity to show what it can do. There must be improvement.

[TheBall]

Not even a little bit concerned about the big ten in 2018. I look at that as a way to increase college hoops vibe in early March and will actually help the big east tourney among casual fans. New York city is unique in that it doesn't have a finite amount of fans. It is all about buzz. If the big ten tourney increases the buzz, then so be it, we benefit.

I'm not holding my breath on uconn, but they are one of the few teams I would actually consider. They are not going to stay in conference of Americans for longer than they have to, and the footballs five aren't knocking down their door. In five years they max out in their divorce settlement, and anything is possible. Conference of Americans is not their long term goal, and if the footballs five don't come calling then anything is possible. But I am not banking in them, just noting they are not off the table.

The conference should not expand just to expand. And adding teams like St. Louis or umass or even vcu constitutes expansion just for the sake of expansion. I am against that.

Big ten is looking to have a east coast tournament two or three times a decade. And that includes dc. They are never going to give the long term commitment that the big east has. I am comfortable knowing that. I don't think the sky is falling here, as I don't think the acc and big ten are committed enough to the northeast to really pose a long term threat. Embrace them as partners who can increase overall interest in northeast hoops, but at the end of the day their home bases are elsewhere.

As far as gonzaga, sign them up if it works. I would love it. Add st Mary's and BYU and St. Louis if need be. I am not against that. But again, I'm not sure if that is likely logistically possible.

But all this conference realignment is out of our control. Mental masturbation. Let's enjoy what we have, the rest is out if our control.

[robinreed]

I especially agree on the 10th school. Depaul does not seem to have had a quality team in over 10 years. I do not believe a new coach will necessarily help however it is a necessary 1st step. The one thing that may do more to jump start the Depaul situation than anything else is the new 12,000 + seat arena. Although not an on campus arena it is a major step forward. We need strong teams in Chi town, NYC and Philly if we are to significantly improve our TV viewership. Improving our TV viewership must be job #1.

Other than this one school I am completely happy with the progress the BE has made. We Xavier fans are especially happy to be in this conference.