Memphis and Cincy to Big 12?

[NJRedman]

I really don't know why there's so much VCU hate on this board.

If it's about institutional fit, VCU will never be accepted. If there's a fear a public school will join then develop football - well then have no fear about VCU. We have no donors who are willing to pony up 100 Million to start a football program.

If it's on the court success you want, put VCU's resume against all the other "candidates" and measure it up. To the fan who used "the past 40 years" and "sweet sixteens" as measurements..... Why not final fours and recent history? Doesn't recent history weigh more toward future success than 35 years ago?

Measure up VCU against SLU, who's had a "decent season" so far? They have a home loss to "Texas A&M- Corpus Christi" yes, TAM-CC. They have a decent win @Indiana St, but lost by 30 to Wichita St. You want to knock VCU's performance against the #1/#2 SOS so far? Not to mention the win just now @Cincinatti

Or last year, where they were pretty good. Yet their best OOC wins were against IND St., Yale and @ Vanderbilt. Of course they lost a lot this year, but VCU has 2 seniors who play (3rd is at the end of the bench) and 1 junior! The rest are freshmen/sophomores, including all of the big men. It takes time to adjust to the defensive style.

Other candidates are: UR (look at their schedule and results, great endowment - unfortunately their money hasnt registered into basketball success) Dayton (decent, great attendance).

The fact of the matter is, if any other candidate had VCU's on the court success, people here would be calling it a no brainer, or a slam dunk. Maybe it's "havoc" and hand checking that causes people on this board to hate the idea, and so be it.

VCU has had 2 straight top 25 recruiting classes, accounting for ALL of the ESPN100 recruits in the A10. The other realistic expansion candidates are all coming from.... The A10. It takes time to build a perennial top 30 program, I dont mind the wait. Please just don't try to claim SLU having a "decent" season to back up your predetermined want of them in the conference, just say they're private and VCU is public, "and that's why we want the Billikens".


Good luck with Jim Crews.

Conference additions are based on more than just on the court/field success. If it was DePaul would be in the Horizon League. SLU brings a new large TV market, and they fit with this league on a cultural level than any other school out there.

VCU is good, and will definitely be in the mix when it comes to Big East expansion. But it's not like you guys are a slam dunk that we could never regret in say 10-15 years from now.

I completely understand adding SLU if it's based on cultural/institutional fit and market size. SLU isn't a bad program at all, but their results this year aren't good. Again, if expansion occurs and is based on markets/institutional fit, VCU would not be the first school called. If you want to base it on results, VCU would be #1. The conference would just have to risk the public thing, as well as being in the 53rd market. In this instance, VCU benefits by being a public, as the fanbase has a stronger presence throughout the state (population heavy Va Beach and northern VA).

It just seems that there is great angst towards VCU on this board, maybe because of Stever or that Shaka toyed with Marquette. I talk to a lot of Georgetown alum and fans, being in DC - all say they'd love to add VCU. Maybe it's just this board.

Well people just have their opinions and they don't reflect on everyone here. Also remember that if we do expand it will be by 2 schools, so it's not like you are going head to head with SLU. More than likely SLU is going to be #11 no matter what and you're really going up against Dayton for that last spot. That is of course unless UConn actually decides to drop or deemphasize FB and wants to rejoin the BE. Then you would be going up against SLU and you would probably be in a bad position since they have everything we want except current on the court success.

All you guys can do in the meantime until we do expand is improve yourselves. Expand your brand and continue to make your resume "Can't Miss". Fans in the stands, wins in the post season, A-10 titles and little #'s next to your name as many weeks as possible.

[Xudash]

I really don't know why there's so much VCU hate on this board.

I completely understand adding SLU if it's based on cultural/institutional fit and market size. SLU isn't a bad program at all, but their results this year aren't good. Again, if expansion occurs and is based on markets/institutional fit, VCU would not be the first school called. If you want to base it on results, VCU would be #1. The conference would just have to risk the public thing, as well as being in the 53rd market. In this instance, VCU benefits by being a public, as the fanbase has a stronger presence throughout the state (population heavy Va Beach and northern VA).

It just seems that there is great angst towards VCU on this board, maybe because of Stever or that Shaka toyed with Marquette. I talk to a lot of Georgetown alum and fans, being in DC - all say they'd love to add VCU. Maybe it's just this board.

You're overreacting, IMO.

I liked it when VCU was brought into the A10. It was a major value add for that league. I like VCU and Shaka, though I don't like Havoc, especially when it lead to a concussion for Dee Davis on our floor (and no foul called).

I don't view football as a serious risk with respect to VCU, because I don't see it as a risk at all.

Public versus private? It's an issue if the Presidents are focused on branding in that direction. There is no way around that. On the other hand, if the Presidents are waiting to make a statement with expansion by waiting to see what may come with further fallout in FBS football, then VCU gains access to the expansion candidate list, albeit placement on that list that would not exactly be at the top of it.

Here's another thing to understand, and this coming from a Xavier fan - former flagship program of the A10: the Big East is a clear cut above the A10. It just is and in every important regard. Last year's A10 was an anomaly with respect to the number of bids it secured for the NCAA tournament. The conference had certain key teams with senior laden rosters. It made a big difference in how the conference performed last year. This year? It's back down to earth, and possibly with fewer than three bids. The cover-up and corruption that just blew up in UD's face certainly will not help matters as well.

The Big East simply is a different animal. The Fox agreement and money, the MSG deal, the caliber of these programs - all of it - is just an order of magnitude greater than hanging around with certain programs who play in high school gyms and refuse to or simply can't invest in their programs.

VCU is well positioned to be successful in the A10. It would compete well in the Big East. We have a way to go before we know if "management" wants to go in that direction - the "public" thing again - and then, if they do, whether or not the options favor VCU or constitute too much competition for it (e.g. UCONN, ?, ?).

[notkirkcameron]

It'll be the Big 12 that dies. For 1 just history. ACC around a whole lot longer than the Big 12. The ACC was extremely vulnerable a few years ago, but managed to escape.

There are plenty of reasons why the Big 12 may not survive the next tectonic shift, but come on. "History" compared to the ACC isn't one of them.

The same argument you'd make that the Big 12 is a "newer" conference than the ACC. I'd question which ACC you're talking about. 7 of the ACC's 15 members were not members of the ACC even 10 years ago.

The same argument you'd make that the ACC is a more established conference, I'd use to point out that 5 of the current 10 Big XII members were old Big Eight members, and four of the other five were old Southwest Conference members. These teams were in conference affiliation for 56 and 40 years respectively. It's not like Oklahoma and Kansas or Texas and TCU are on a blind date here. They've been around the block a few times together.

[Bill Marsh]

It'll be the Big 12 that dies. For 1 just history. ACC around a whole lot longer than the Big 12. The ACC was extremely vulnerable a few years ago, but managed to escape.

There are plenty of reasons why the Big 12 may not survive the next tectonic shift, but come on. "History" compared to the ACC isn't one of them.

The same argument you'd make that the Big 12 is a "newer" conference than the ACC. I'd question which ACC you're talking about. 7 of the ACC's 15 members were not members of the ACC even 10 years ago.

The same argument you'd make that the ACC is a more established conference, I'd use to point out that 5 of the current 10 Big XII members were old Big Eight members, and four of the other five were old Southwest Conference members. These teams were in conference affiliation for 56 and 40 years respectively. It's not like Oklahoma and Kansas or Texas and TCU are on a blind date here. They've been around the block a few times together.

The Big XII is built on a foundation of sand, i.e. no markets outside of Texas and overreliance on 2 teams, UT and OU. If those 2 schools decide to leave, the Big XII is dead as a power conference. OTOH, If UNC and UVA leave the ACC, that conference will continue to thrive. Take away any 2 other teams - FSU and UM for example - and the same thing would be true.

[Jet915]

The only problem with the ACC is that their football stinks. It is Florida State and no-one else and we know football is king. Most years I can see them being the odd man out for the football playoff.

[GumbyDamnit!]

It'll be the Big 12 that dies. For 1 just history. ACC around a whole lot longer than the Big 12. The ACC was extremely vulnerable a few years ago, but managed to escape.

There are plenty of reasons why the Big 12 may not survive the next tectonic shift, but come on. "History" compared to the ACC isn't one of them.

The same argument you'd make that the Big 12 is a "newer" conference than the ACC. I'd question which ACC you're talking about. 7 of the ACC's 15 members were not members of the ACC even 10 years ago.

The same argument you'd make that the ACC is a more established conference, I'd use to point out that 5 of the current 10 Big XII members were old Big Eight members, and four of the other five were old Southwest Conference members. These teams were in conference affiliation for 56 and 40 years respectively. It's not like Oklahoma and Kansas or Texas and TCU are on a blind date here. They've been around the block a few times together.

The Big XII is built on a foundation of sand, i.e. no markets outside of Texas and overreliance on 2 teams, UT and OU. If those 2 schools decide to leave, the Big XII is dead as a power conference. OTOH, If UNC and UVA leave the ACC, that conference will continue to thrive. Take away any 2 other teams - FSU and UM for example - and the same thing would be true.

I don't think you can find any other conference in which one team is absolutely critical to its future success as Texas is to the BigXII. If they were to bolt, OU would surely follow and then the rest of the sinking ship will desperately try to find a landing spot wherever they can. To me, that is the intrigue of college athletics: Texas. I also do believe there are a couple of things that are inevitable: 1). at some future point there will be (4) 16 team leagues; it is just too easy for the FBS playoff format to have 4 leagues. I can envision an 8 team playoff with 2 teams from each league participating; 2). At some point I believe Notre Dame will join a conference for FB, and I believe that conference to be the B1G.

From our standpoint I'd sit back for 3-4 years and see where the chips fall. It might get crazy. There will be football winners and losers and we will be ideally positioned to pick and choose which BB programs make the most sense from the field of castoffs (UCONN?, UNLV?, Gonzaga? Memphis? VCU? Wake Forrest?)