Expansion: UAB to reunite with Marquette and DePaul in NBE?

[Xudash]

I respect your points, but we can agree to disagree. My hopes aren't up, so I could really care less. Don't tell me how no one cares about how well UD travels and fills arenas. Have you seen some of the NBE games on Fox Sports? Have you seen empty arenas at St. Johns? Depaul? Seton Hall? Even Georgetown? When Fox wants to grow, don't tell me they don't care about Dayton's following because Dayton is a good atmosphere on TV. Every year they have one of the top tv markets as far as ratings go for college basketball. I know everyone on here hates ESPN, but that is why they are always on their pre-season tournaments. Dayton outdrew Gonzaga last year to Maui and this year outdrew Uconn in Puerto Rico.

Ohio, I do not know that anyone here disputes what you are saying about the Dayton fanbase/attendence. I think where your point fails however is that you seem to believe that FOX somehow benefits from sold out arenas. They don't. They make their money on selling advertising and from carriage fees. Presumably, because of X's nearby presence, adding Dayton isn't going to add a lot of additional revenues in terms of additional carriage fees. While you can attempt to argue that sold out houses means that there are better TV ratings for those teams, I, as a fan of a school with top 5 attendance nationally last year, think that is a big time stretch. Just because a team may be popular in its local community does not mean it has a national following that would lead to some noticeable ratings bump, especially in the sport of college basketball where there are just so many D1 programs.

Similarly, the number of fans that travel does not benefit FOX either. Now ESPN, which owns some MTEs, does stand to benefit from ticket sales to those events. FOX though, at least until the time that they create their own MTEs, does not get any monetary bump because fans may attend an MTE.

I am sure that if FOX were to be picking expansion teams, they would push for big schools with huge fanbases and national followings, not small private schools.

ok, Bjuejay, When the new BE was formed they selected Creighton - as small private school from a small market surrounded by farmland for as far as they eye can see. Lots of cows/sheep/pigs but no humans to speak of. UD is a 150 year old top tier private Catholic reseach university sitting in the middle of one of the top 60 min population centers in the US and has the close the best local and travelling fan base.

What is your point?

Let's see, Omaha's MSA is #60, per the July 2013 United States Census Bureau list, while the Dayton MSA comes in at #71. Otherwise, Creighton doesn't have a conference mate sitting within 50 minutes of it.

Your condescending tone is typical of many delusional UD fans - "Lots of cows/sheep/pigs but no humans to speak of." Do you not understand that UD carries no weight around here. It isn't in this conference for good reason. You aren't doing UD or UD fans any favors here by essentially insinuating that cattle and pig drives are being run through Creighton's campus. On that note, you obviously haven't seen Creighton's campus. If you are going to attempt to play the academic card, notwithstanding the fact that this is a message board, you may want to consider not ending a sentence with a preposition. The fact that you went down that road with a Creighton fan is entertaining. I just don't know if it is more entertaining than the fact that you also went down the attendance road with a school that blows UD away on that metric as well.

This conference isn't expanding anytime soon - probably at least for a few years. If and when it does, it will do so based upon decisions having to do mostly with television revenue models, which will be influenced by programs/markets. That will mean UD will be boxed out of the Big East, not because Xavier will explicitly argue for that, but primarily because Dayton is sitting in too close a proximity to X. The Dayton TV market is inconsequential in any expansion scenario. UD otherwise doesn't have a strong basketball brand, regardless of how many sweater vests show up for a game, and you should really consider not trying to position UD as some kind of great, national research university when most people around here think in terms of P 5 schools when they think about that category.

"Country look"! Are you kidding me, given some of the toothless fools that show up at UDump.

[DudeAnon]

Hmm, this is a productive debate.

I think people make too much of the "market" and all that stuff. If a team is shitty, nobody in that market cares. If a team is good, not only does everyone near it care but it builds national relevance as well. Creighton might not be the biggest market, but they win, alot. So they are popular locally and nationally. Dayton isn't a big city but when Dayton is winning the fanbase is tuned in and if they continue their trajectory, the rest of the country will soon as well.

TL:DR
Screw markets, just take the best programs.

[Xudash]

Hmm, this is a productive debate.

I think people make too much of the "market" and all that stuff. If a team is shitty, nobody in that market cares. If a team is good, not only does everyone near it care but it builds national relevance as well. Creighton might not be the biggest market, but they win, alot. So they are popular locally and nationally. Dayton isn't a big city but when Dayton is winning the fanbase is tuned in and if they continue their trajectory, the rest of the country will soon as well.

TL:DR
Screw markets, just take the best programs.

That isn't UD either, though. Prior to last year, UD hadn't had a run in the NCAA Tournament for 30 years. UD's biggest problem now is its coach: he is a Miller. When the right opportunity comes along, his brother, Calipari and Matta will be on the phone with him, telling him to exit stage left to the P5 deal. That assumes he keeps winning at UD.

Besides, while you're right, at this point of being at 10 and contemplating more, the best programs probably aren't currently available in the eyes of the presidents. Hence, no expansion talk right now, other than here.

[DudeAnon]

Hmm, this is a productive debate.

I think people make too much of the "market" and all that stuff. If a team is shitty, nobody in that market cares. If a team is good, not only does everyone near it care but it builds national relevance as well. Creighton might not be the biggest market, but they win, alot. So they are popular locally and nationally. Dayton isn't a big city but when Dayton is winning the fanbase is tuned in and if they continue their trajectory, the rest of the country will soon as well.

TL:DR
Screw markets, just take the best programs.

That isn't UD either, though. Prior to last year, UD hadn't had a run in the NCAA Tournament for 30 years. UD's biggest problem now is its coach: he is a Miller. When the right opportunity comes along, his brother, Calipari and Matta will be on the phone with him, telling him to exit stage left to the P5 deal. That assumes he keeps winning at UD.

Besides, while you're right, at this point of being at 10 and contemplating more, the best programs probably aren't currently available in the eyes of the presidents. Hence, no expansion talk right now, other than here.

If you want to talk the merits of UD's basketball program, that is a much more productive discussion. Personally, without accounting for variable factors (losing a coach etc.), here is how I would rank potential members on basketball pedigree

1. UCONN
2. Gonzaga
3. VCU
4. Wichita St.
5. Dayton
6. SLU
7. Am I missing anybody else?

[murphy]

The problem is that UD does not want to be associated with FOX (Rupert Murdoch et al) - As a Mariast University they cannot associate with the likes of Fox.
(see Nuns on the bus)

[Xudash]

Hmm, this is a productive debate.

I think people make too much of the "market" and all that stuff. If a team is shitty, nobody in that market cares. If a team is good, not only does everyone near it care but it builds national relevance as well. Creighton might not be the biggest market, but they win, alot. So they are popular locally and nationally. Dayton isn't a big city but when Dayton is winning the fanbase is tuned in and if they continue their trajectory, the rest of the country will soon as well.

TL:DR
Screw markets, just take the best programs.

That isn't UD either, though. Prior to last year, UD hadn't had a run in the NCAA Tournament for 30 years. UD's biggest problem now is its coach: he is a Miller. When the right opportunity comes along, his brother, Calipari and Matta will be on the phone with him, telling him to exit stage left to the P5 deal. That assumes he keeps winning at UD.

Besides, while you're right, at this point of being at 10 and contemplating more, the best programs probably aren't currently available in the eyes of the presidents. Hence, no expansion talk right now, other than here.

If you want to talk the merits of UD's basketball program, that is a much more productive discussion. Personally, without accounting for variable factors (losing a coach etc.), here is how I would rank potential members on basketball pedigree

1. UCONN
2. Gonzaga
3. VCU
4. Wichita St.
5. Dayton
6. SLU
7. Am I missing anybody else?

Good list. I would put Richmond in as #7. I understand this discussion is only about PROGRAMS, as you've defined it, but television will factor into their final decisions on this topic. That being the case, I still believe SLU will trump UD in the west, unless that spot is somehow taken by/given to the Zags. I otherwise have to imagine that they're waiting to see how much money the State of CT is willing to bleed before making a decision on UCONN football. UCONN is the obvious #1 choice. VCU makes the cut if they break with the public/private thing.

[Omaha1]

The problem is that UD does not want to be associated with FOX (Rupert Murdoch et al) - As a Mariast University they cannot associate with the likes of Fox.
(see Nuns on the bus)

This dude is plain bat shit crazy. Reminds me so much of the Wichita State fans who used to spout off all the time. part of me wouldn't mind having UD in the Big East because it would give me a team to root against every night.

[adoraz]

Something important that isn't talked about is how much value does a team provide when they're down?

None of these teams are guaranteed to do well on the court in the future. Although I like Gonzaga and VCU most, what if Gonzaga struggles? Again, most likely they won't struggle (they've been good for decades) but if they do struggle then they may become a liability. Dayton and VCU at least seem to have rabid fan bases that are close to MSG so even when they're down I think we could expect them to help the conference. Richmond (especially) and SLU I don't think have as strong fan bases.

I actually like Dayton just because so many people here hate them. Would be nice to have a school everyone hates on. It sucks but those programs create interest and rivalries. They also help with attendance and other things. There were at least a few of those in the original Big East.

[marquette]

The problem is that UD does not want to be associated with FOX (Rupert Murdoch et al) - As a Mariast University they cannot associate with the likes of Fox.
(see Nuns on the bus)

Nobody outside of UD knows or cares about nuns on the bus. If the BE extended UD an invite tomorrow they would jump at it so fast it would set a new land speed record. (see any UDPride thread within a month of the announcement of what schools were added to the C7).

Also, learn how to spell Marianist.

[Ball Turret Gunner]

part of me wouldn't mind having UD in the Big East because it would give me a team to root against every night.

You don't have to wait. You can start now.