What it would take for each team to be ranked

[stever20]

PC maybe- would hinge on others around them...
SJU- not as sure only because Syracuse is struggling. would only be 5-3 with a loss. I don't think that pushes SJU into the top 25 just by itself.

[adoraz]

Nice rundown, Adoraz. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks.

Appreciate it, glad you enjoyed reading it.

and..

PC maybe- would hinge on others around them...
SJU- not as sure only because Syracuse is struggling. would only be 5-3 with a loss. I don't think that pushes SJU into the top 25 just by itself.

Stever- I definitely see your point, but I still think they'd be ranked if they win. I wouldn't feel overly confident about it, but I'd say greater than 50/50. The AP top 10 is extremely impressive with no slip ups prior to last night, but once you get into the late teens/20s I think SJU would have a better resume than most of those teams. Sure, Minnesota and Cuse aren't ranked but they should definitely be top 50 teams all year at the least. And nearly every other team 11-25 will have at least one loss, but SJU's one loss would be against the team with the second highest RPI. Just look at #25 Utah, they were ranked on Monday with a lose to #16 SDSU and basically the only impressive win being over ND. SJU's resume more impressive. Plus, they lost last night. I think you'll see about 5 teams leaving the polls next week.

It also helps that SJU had high hopes coming into this year. I hate getting ahead of myself because most likely we'll lose, but I think we'd we ranked about #23 and worst case scenario about #28.

[stever20]

Nice rundown, Adoraz. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks.

Appreciate it, glad you enjoyed reading it.

and..

PC maybe- would hinge on others around them...
SJU- not as sure only because Syracuse is struggling. would only be 5-3 with a loss. I don't think that pushes SJU into the top 25 just by itself.

Stever- I definitely see your point, but I still think they'd be ranked if they win. I wouldn't feel overly confident about it, but I'd say greater than 50/50. The AP top 10 is extremely impressive with no slip ups prior to last night, but once you get into the late teens/20s I think SJU would have a better resume than most of those teams. Sure, Minnesota and Cuse aren't ranked but they should definitely be top 50 teams all year at the least. And nearly every other team 11-25 will have at least one loss, but SJU's one loss would be against the team with the second highest RPI. Just look at #25 Utah, they were ranked on Monday with a lose to #16 SDSU and basically the only impressive win being over ND. SJU's resume more impressive. Plus, they lost last night. I think you'll see about 5 teams leaving the polls next week.

It also helps that SJU had high hopes coming into this year. I hate getting ahead of myself because most likely we'll lose, but I think we'd we ranked about #23 and worst case scenario about #28.

Utah beat Wichita.

got to be space in the inn sort of speak to get ranked. 1st and most importantly, Syracuse wasn't ranked.
AP
#18 Arkansas @ 20 Iowa St, @ Clemson(lose to both and they would be out)
#19 Mich St lost by 1 to ND, Ark Pine Bluff(should be ranked still next week)
#20 Iowa St vs #18 Arkansas(should be in win/lose)
#21 Maryland lost by 11 to #7 UVA, Winthrop(beat Winthrop and still should be in)
#22 Oklahoma vs Missouri(win and still will be in)
#23 Butler beat Indiana St, Northwestern(win and still be in)
#24 Illinois lost by 9 to #15 Miami, American(iffy)
#25 Utah beat #8 Wichita(in)

really only Illinois is iffy. Think Oklahoma St for one would be in line to get in before St John's.

[stever20]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

[adoraz]

Nice rundown, Adoraz. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks.

Appreciate it, glad you enjoyed reading it.

and..

PC maybe- would hinge on others around them...
SJU- not as sure only because Syracuse is struggling. would only be 5-3 with a loss. I don't think that pushes SJU into the top 25 just by itself.

Stever- I definitely see your point, but I still think they'd be ranked if they win. I wouldn't feel overly confident about it, but I'd say greater than 50/50. The AP top 10 is extremely impressive with no slip ups prior to last night, but once you get into the late teens/20s I think SJU would have a better resume than most of those teams. Sure, Minnesota and Cuse aren't ranked but they should definitely be top 50 teams all year at the least. And nearly every other team 11-25 will have at least one loss, but SJU's one loss would be against the team with the second highest RPI. Just look at #25 Utah, they were ranked on Monday with a lose to #16 SDSU and basically the only impressive win being over ND. SJU's resume more impressive. Plus, they lost last night. I think you'll see about 5 teams leaving the polls next week.

It also helps that SJU had high hopes coming into this year. I hate getting ahead of myself because most likely we'll lose, but I think we'd we ranked about #23 and worst case scenario about #28.

Utah beat Wichita.

got to be space in the inn sort of speak to get ranked. 1st and most importantly, Syracuse wasn't ranked.
AP
#18 Arkansas @ 20 Iowa St, @ Clemson(lose to both and they would be out)
#19 Mich St lost by 1 to ND, Ark Pine Bluff(should be ranked still next week)
#20 Iowa St vs #18 Arkansas(should be in win/lose)
#21 Maryland lost by 11 to #7 UVA, Winthrop(beat Winthrop and still should be in)
#22 Oklahoma vs Missouri(win and still will be in)
#23 Butler beat Indiana St, Northwestern(win and still be in)
#24 Illinois lost by 9 to #15 Miami, American(iffy)
#25 Utah beat #8 Wichita(in)

really only Illinois is iffy. Think Oklahoma St for one would be in line to get in before St John's.

My mistake, Utah did win last night but the rest of my point still stands. I could see them passing some teams like Maryland and Illinois. Not solely looking at a week by week basis but overall resumes.

Also, keep in mind none of these tough games SJU is playing are at home. Syracuse on the road and two neutral games. Minnesota was #28 when SJU played them but because they weren't that magical #25 the win was overlooked some. Even then they still received votes. Let's revisit this on Saturday if SJU wins and we have more results from the rest of the games.

[adoraz]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

Not sure I agree with that. You've seen how easy it is for teams like Butler and Creighton to get no votes one week and be ranked the next. SJU at least has some votes. I think SJU's resume would be better or equal to Providence's if they win.

[stever20]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

Not sure I agree with that. You've seen how easy it is for teams like Butler and Creighton to get no votes one week and be ranked the next. SJU at least has some votes. I think SJU's resume would be better or equal to Providence's if they win.

You are giving these poll voters WAY too much credit. A lot of the voters do look at it on a week by week basis.

[Whitefriar]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

Not sure I agree with that. You've seen how easy it is for teams like Butler and Creighton to get no votes one week and be ranked the next. SJU at least has some votes. I think SJU's resume would be better or equal to Providence's if they win.

Butler and Creighton both beat ranked teams, with Butler's win over a 5th ranked UNC on a neutral floor. Wouldn't say it was "easy" for them to jump into the rankings. Those were impressive wins. Syracuse looks to be a bit down this year so not sure beating them would have the impact you think it would by itself. Playing at Cuse isn't easy no matter what, but teams above them would definitley have to lose for them to jump into the top 25. And is the loss vs Gonzaga really considered neutral since it was at MSG?

[adoraz]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

Not sure I agree with that. You've seen how easy it is for teams like Butler and Creighton to get no votes one week and be ranked the next. SJU at least has some votes. I think SJU's resume would be better or equal to Providence's if they win.

Butler and Creighton both beat ranked teams, with Butler's win over a 5th ranked UNC on a neutral floor. Wouldn't say it was "easy" for them to jump into the rankings. Those were impressive wins. Syracuse looks to be a bit down this year so not sure beating them would have the impact you think it would by itself. Playing at Cuse isn't easy no matter what, but teams above them would definitley have to lose for them to jump into the top 25. And is the loss vs Gonzaga really considered neutral since it was at MSG?

The thing is though a team like Minnesota would be ranked if SJU lost. Since SJU won, Minnesota isn't ranked. They were ranked #28 the week they lost to SJU. Syracuse is clearly down, but last night's game came down to the final play @ #17 Michigan. If anything that reinforces that Syracuse is still a good team and certainly looks like a tournament team. Creighton beat a #18 ranked team (I think?) and Oklahoma then wasn't ranked the following Monday after Creighton beat them. Providence was nearly ranked (and was ranked in the CP) after beating two unranked teams. Butler beat #5 UNC but lost to unranked Oklahoma the following day. None of those 3 examples was a clear case of "Butler, Creighton, Providence should definitely be ranked after this week". Yet, they all were in fact ranked (again, with Providence in the CP).

I get what you're saying and it has merit but my overall point is if SJU wins, their resume would be more impressive than at least a few teams in the top 25 and therefore they should be ranked. 2 very solid wins, 1 loss vs a top 5 or 10 team, and the rest wins. I think if it happens I'll be able to find at least 5-10 current top 25 teams that SJU has a more impressive resume than.

And as for the tournament games, yes they're still neutral. No SJU logos on the court, probably no locker room preference, etc. It's like when a major team such as Duke or Syracuse comes to MSG and the majority of fans are supporting them over SJU. Still counts as a home game for SJU (unfortunately).

[adoraz]

I would add- Providence would be added before St John's would be.

Not sure I agree with that. You've seen how easy it is for teams like Butler and Creighton to get no votes one week and be ranked the next. SJU at least has some votes. I think SJU's resume would be better or equal to Providence's if they win.

You are giving these poll voters WAY too much credit. A lot of the voters do look at it on a week by week basis.

Hah I don't disagree with that.