What it would take for each team to be ranked

[adoraz]

Yeah, and where did Lavin get them? NIT.
We need a coach that will seal the deal with a recruit like Briscoe, not just have him consider us then go to some place else.
That has happened way to much with Lavin, but thats not good enough.

I think you're missing the point I was making. I'm not defending Lavin at all. I'm saying the main reason he attracted high level recruits had to do with him selling recruits on msg / NYC exposure. The same is still true today.

Briscoe never would've considered us if we were in Providence for example. Probably the same for recruits that worked out, like Rysheed.

Does that excuse our poor court performance? Of course not, but that's not what I'm getting at.

[shupat08]

Guys... This guy is obviously trolling SHU.... RU, USF, DePaul were all historically worse than SHU in the Old Big East and many years StJ and Prov were worse... Prov only recently improved and StJ still doesn't the least with the most talent in the nation.

Shut up man.

Just an outlandish statement with no evidence.

SHU has not been good. But over the past decade plus the obvious 2nd worse team in the Big East? Okay...

EDIT:
SHU: 5 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 21, least wins 13
Prov: 4 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 23, least wins 12
StJ: 4 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 21, least wins 11
USF: 2 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 22, least wins 9
RU: 1 winning season, 0 NCAA... Most wins 19, least wins 10
DePaul: 1 winning season, 0 NCAA... Most wins 20, least wins 7

So really, historically, over the past 10 years there were 5 teams on average worse than SHU.... Every one of those teams had worse seasons (win total wise) than SHU's worst season... And win total wise SHU was in the middle of the pack for most wins in a season (with 2 teams with more, 2 teams with less, and tied with StJ).

So, let's try to stick with reality not hyperbole. Since hyperbole accomplishes and proves nothing. Okay?

[adoraz]

Guys... This guy is obviously trolling SHU.... RU, USF, DePaul were all historically worse than SHU in the Old Big East and many years StJ and Prov were worse... Prov only recently improved and StJ still doesn't the least with the most talent in the nation.

Shut up man.

Just an outlandish statement with no evidence.

SHU has not been good. But over the past decade plus the obvious 2nd worse team in the Big East? Okay...

EDIT:
SHU: 5 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 21, least wins 13
Prov: 4 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 23, least wins 12
StJ: 4 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 21, least wins 11
USF: 2 winning seasons, 1 NCAA... Most wins 22, least wins 9
RU: 1 winning season, 0 NCAA... Most wins 19, least wins 10
DePaul: 1 winning season, 0 NCAA... Most wins 20, least wins 7

So really, historically, over the past 10 years there were 5 teams on average worse than SHU.... Every one of those teams had worse seasons (win total wise) than SHU's worst season... And win total wise SHU was in the middle of the pack for most wins in a season (with 2 teams with more, 2 teams with less, and tied with StJ).

So, let's try to stick with reality not hyperbole. Since hyperbole accomplishes and proves nothing. Okay?

Lol man, relax it's not that serious. No need to get angry.

I'm not trolling SHU. I root hard for every BE team, hence why I made this topic this year and last year. My favorite team is SJU, but I want ALL of the Big East to do well. We all do.

As for your analysis, well I clearly stated that I'm referring to current Big East teams and not prior ones.

As for SHU vs. Providence vs. SJU, sure you can say SHU was better over the past 10 years and you might be right, but seriously you're just dealing with various shades of mediocre. ALL THREE have been mediocre. Did SJU really have much better seasons than SHU the last couple years? In my opinion, no. Both have sucked. Sure, SJU made the NIT and had the better records, but I think anything less than the NCAA is a bad season for Big East teams. My point is I believe SJU is a more valuable property (due to MSG/NYC) when the three teams are all performing poorly. Providence at least had a very successful initial season in the New Big East, and so far this year as well. I hope SHU does the same this year but they still need to prove themselves.

I root hard for SHU each game. Literally, I've watched most of their games and was cheering them on. It benefits my team when SHU does well. Why would I troll them?

[Hall2012]

Another thread gone off topic...let's bring it back or kill it. Here's my effort:

We have 7 of 10 teams already either ranked or receiving votes. All 7 of them have a somewhat realistic shot of breaking through by the time conference play starts- getting at least 5 in would be awesome and all 7 would really set us up nicely.

Everybody pretty much just holding serve and avoiding bad losses at this point could actually be enough. Everybody (receiving votes +) has at least 1 marquee win except Seton Hall and St. John's, and they each have a chance for one coming up. Even if they each lose their big game (@ Wichita State and @ Syracuse, respectively), if they each keep it competitive and make it their only loss from now to Dec. 31st, they could potentially still find themselves sneaking into the #24 or #25 spot just on sheer win total (would make St. John's 10-2 and Seton Hall 11-1).

It's all easier said than done, but not unrealistic at this point. The toughest part of the non-con schedule is over for a lot of us.

[shupat08]

Well, you're the one who made a few outlandish comments regarding SHU. So maybe you should ask yourself that question.

So if they're all mediocre and SHU might have been better over the past 10 years... How could SHU clearly be the 2nd worst team only ahead of DePaul and a detriment to the BE?

And how can you say "over 10 years" and then only compare the current 2 year Big East? Last I checked Butler, Creighton and X have all been solid over the past decade... They didn't play Cuse, UConn, Cinci, L'Ville, Pitt, WVU, ND atleast once each year. On top of G'Town, Nova and the old Marquette teams.

So you're entire argument is a practice logial of fallacy.

[stever20]

Another thread gone off topic...let's bring it back or kill it. Here's my effort:

We have 7 of 10 teams already either ranked or receiving votes. All 7 of them have a somewhat realistic shot of breaking through by the time conference play starts- getting at least 5 in would be awesome and all 7 would really set us up nicely.

Everybody pretty much just holding serve and avoiding bad losses at this point could actually be enough. Everybody (receiving votes +) has at least 1 marquee win except Seton Hall and St. John's, and they each have a chance for one coming up. Even if they each lose their big game (@ Wichita State and @ Syracuse, respectively), if they each keep it competitive and make it their only loss from now to Dec. 31st, they could potentially still find themselves sneaking into the #24 or #25 spot just on sheer win total (would make St. John's 10-2 and Seton Hall 11-1).

It's all easier said than done, but not unrealistic at this point. The toughest part of the non-con schedule is over for a lot of us.

It's amazing, but actually the toughest part of the non-con schedule is not over for a lot of us yet. Think we've played 24 top 100 OOC games so far, and have at least 28 left.

[adoraz]

Well, you're the one who made a few outlandish comments regarding SHU. So maybe you should ask yourself that question.

So if they're all mediocre and SHU might have been better over the past 10 years... How could SHU clearly be the 2nd worst team only ahead of DePaul and a detriment to the BE?

And how can you say "over 10 years" and then only compare the current 2 year Big East? Last I checked Butler, Creighton and X have all been solid over the past decade... They didn't play Cuse, UConn, Cinci, L'Ville, Pitt, WVU, ND atleast once each year. On top of G'Town, Nova and the old Marquette teams.

So you're entire argument is a practice logial of fallacy.

Look, these are long write ups I do and they're for a forum post that not many people read. They take long to do because I have to go to each team's website and look at their schedule and also look at the updated rankings. Had I been writing this professionally for ESPN.com I probably would've went back, reread it and changed the word "detrimental". If anything, I was trying to prop SHU up this year and give them credit for their recruiting class and start to the year. A common way to do that is by contrasting them with their mediocre results in the years prior. All I'm saying is they are on the right track after being bad for so many years. Read my prior posts related to SHU to see me giving credit for their (hopeful) turnaround.

You're acting like I made a topic calling out SHU for being bad, it was just one word out of the thousands I wrote in this topic.

That said, I still believe, in terms of value, SHU is bottom of the barrel in the New Big East. Yes, below SJU and ahead of DePaul. HOWEVER... SHU may have a very bright future, whereas SJU's future isn't looking so hot. I'd go as far to say that I believe SJU will finish 10th next year in the BE. They'll be the new DePaul, at least for a year or two.

Note, I'm talking about overall value and not solely wins/losses. I think most conferences would take SJU over SHU solely because of SJU's NYC/MSG presence. Maybe that'll change if SHU starts performing, but that really doesn't mean anything and it means nothing now. That's not the point of this topic and we both clearly have different opinions. We're all in the New Big East for a long time, so let's cheer each other on.

[adoraz]

Another thread gone off topic...let's bring it back or kill it. Here's my effort:

We have 7 of 10 teams already either ranked or receiving votes. All 7 of them have a somewhat realistic shot of breaking through by the time conference play starts- getting at least 5 in would be awesome and all 7 would really set us up nicely.

Everybody pretty much just holding serve and avoiding bad losses at this point could actually be enough. Everybody (receiving votes +) has at least 1 marquee win except Seton Hall and St. John's, and they each have a chance for one coming up. Even if they each lose their big game (@ Wichita State and @ Syracuse, respectively), if they each keep it competitive and make it their only loss from now to Dec. 31st, they could potentially still find themselves sneaking into the #24 or #25 spot just on sheer win total (would make St. John's 10-2 and Seton Hall 11-1).

It's all easier said than done, but not unrealistic at this point. The toughest part of the non-con schedule is over for a lot of us.

Good analysis. I think if we won every game over the next 2 weeks we'd have 7 ranked teams. Obviously that's not happening, but just the fact that's a possibility is extremely impressive.

I think this week will be tough with all the road games and we'll see a ranked/borderline ranked team or two slip up. Hope I'm wrong of course.

[Jet915]

I think Creighton's toughest part of the non-conference is this week. Their first two true road games, @Tulsa and @Nebraska. Tulsa has almost everyone back from the NCAA team a year ago and although they have vastly underperformed this year so far (probably due to Frank Haith implementing a new system), they are still dangerous and at home. @Nebraska will be a heated rivalry game and Nebraska has only lost @home one time in the last two years. I would be disappointed but not surprised if we went 0-2.

[adoraz]

I think Creighton's toughest part of the non-conference is this week. Their first two true road games, @Tulsa and @Nebraska. Tulsa has almost everyone back from the NCAA team a year ago and although they have vastly underperformed this year so far (probably due to Frank Haith implementing a new system), they are still dangerous and at home. @Nebraska will be a heated rivalry game and Nebraska has only lost @home one time in the last two years. I would be disappointed but not surprised if we went 0-2.

I expect Creighton to go 1-1 and to be knocked down the rankings. However, they'd still be in a solid position for a NCAA berth which is the main thing that matters.

Think of last year where Providence and Xavier made the tournament. Neither was ranked the entire year yet they still made it to the tournament.

I'm not expecting too much from this week, but it is very important and can change outlooks for a lot of teams. If Creighton goes 0-2 they're looking very suspect. If they go 2-0 they'll be ranked again. Same is true for a lot of teams, like SJU.