Butler head coach Brandon Miller Taking Leave of Absence

[Bill Marsh]

I have faith in the Butler program because of one guy. And it's not Brad Stevens.

Barry Collier

He started building this program 25 years ago. He's the one who coached them to their first 20 win season and their first postseason appearance in recent memory. Every coach he's hired since he because AD has been a great hire. He does things the Butler way, which is his way, and as long as he is in charge, I believe that this program will continue to thrive even if their is an occasional set back.

I'm sorry- but Butler really became Butler when Stevens came around. Collier didn't win a single NCAA tourney game at Butler. None. Matta and Lichliter won a total of 5 NCAA games while at Butler. Stevens won 12 in 6 years. To give Collier credit for Stevens is kind of comical- Stevens was the associate head coach so to decide to hire from within Stevens would automatically be the guy there. It was Stevens that had 5 26+ win years-including 2 30 win seasons. Similar to Boise- Stevens elevated that program to a whole new stratosphere. Stevens is why Butler is in the Big East right now, period.

First of all, Stever, you're not sorry so no need to apologize.

Second, I'm glad that I could brighten up your day with some comic relief.

you state your opinion as though it's fact, not opinion. I just happen to hold a different opinion than you do. I didn't ask you to have faith in Barry Collier. I said that I do. the fact that you hold a different opinion doesn't change the fact that I have faith in him. I'm not going to argue with you; I'll just explain why I view things the way I do.

Collier took a team from nowhere, a team that had 4 straight losing seasons at the low major level and had so little talent that it went 6-22 in his first year as coach. He had them winning 21 games with a spot in the NIT two years later. That in itself was a remarkable turnaround. By the time he finished his tenure as head coach, Collier had built Butler into a perennial power in the Midwestern Conference, going to 3 NCAA tournaments in his last 4 years. Without that foundation, nothing that Stevens accomplished would have been possible.

Thad Matta was there for only one year, but his subsequent track record as well as his success at Butler in that one season all show that Collier knew how to hire a good coach even back then. Matta took the program to the next level by not only getting them to the tournament, but winning the school's first game in 40 years in NCAA tournament competition.

Todd Lickliter was named national coach of the year while he was at Butler, once again validating Collier's ability to find and hire a good coach. Once again, Butler was taken to a new level under its new coach, getting to two Sweet 16's in Lickliter's tenure. Under Matta and Lickliter, Butler averaged 22 wins per year with a high of 29 wins in Licliter's final season.

Obviously Stevens took the program to a new level. You're not breaking news with that observation. But the point is that he was the 4th coach in succession who had taken Butler to a new level. He built on the accomplishments of his predecessors, on the foundation for the program that they had established. The one constant in all of this was Barry Collier. You talk about him promoting Stevens from within as though it was simply good luck that Stevens was there. You don't think that he had something to do with hiring Stevens as an assistant in the first place? You don't think that he had any role in mentoring Stevens, a young unproven coach when he came to Butler? You think that Stevens took over at Butler and was a finished product?

if you can't recognize what Barry collier has accomplished with the Butler program, that's your problem not mine.

[stever20]

Collier did not hire Matta and Lickiter as head coaches. He had gone to Nebraska(where he was mediocre at best- 89-91). The AD at that time hired them as head coaches- not Collier.

He also didn't hire Stevens as an assistant coach- Collier was already at Nebraska in his 2nd year. A lot of that credit goes to Lickliter. Stevens was with Collier for 1 season before he got hired. So no, I don't think Collier had all that much of a role in mentoring Stevens. Like it or not- Stevens was an historically good coach. He is the # 1 coach in terms of wins 1st 3 years. That's a fact. He's the youngest coach ever to go to 2 final 4's. That's a fact. Stevens was 166-49 as Butler's coach. Matta, Lickliter, and Miller are a combined 169-86. Like I said- it's very similar to Boise football and Chris Peterson. The problem with a newbie program like a Boise football/Butler basketball is what happens when the program falls. We've seen in football/basketball way too many times where when a program like that stumbles, they NEVER get back to those levels. You have 1 bad coaching hire- and it just never recovers. I think it's very possible that is what we see with Butler.

And we'll see what happens now. Miller right now has to look like a major questionmark. That's all on Collier.

[DudeAnon]

I have faith in the Butler program because of one guy. And it's not Brad Stevens.

Barry Collier

He started building this program 25 years ago. He's the one who coached them to their first 20 win season and their first postseason appearance in recent memory. Every coach he's hired since he because AD has been a great hire. He does things the Butler way, which is his way, and as long as he is in charge, I believe that this program will continue to thrive even if their is an occasional set back.

I'm sorry- but Butler really became Butler when Stevens came around. Collier didn't win a single NCAA tourney game at Butler. None. Matta and Lichliter won a total of 5 NCAA games while at Butler. Stevens won 12 in 6 years. To give Collier credit for Stevens is kind of comical- Stevens was the associate head coach so to decide to hire from within Stevens would automatically be the guy there. It was Stevens that had 5 26+ win years-including 2 30 win seasons. Similar to Boise- Stevens elevated that program to a whole new stratosphere. Stevens is why Butler is in the Big East right now, period.

First of all, Stever, you're not sorry so no need to apologize.

Second, I'm glad that I could brighten up your day with some comic relief.

you state your opinion as though it's fact, not opinion. I just happen to hold a different opinion than you do. I didn't ask you to have faith in Barry Collier. I said that I do. the fact that you hold a different opinion doesn't change the fact that I have faith in him. I'm not going to argue with you; I'll just explain why I view things the way I do.

Collier took a team from nowhere, a team that had 4 straight losing seasons at the low major level and had so little talent that it went 6-22 in his first year as coach. He had them winning 21 games with a spot in the NIT two years later. That in itself was a remarkable turnaround. By the time he finished his tenure as head coach, Collier had built Butler into a perennial power in the Midwestern Conference, going to 3 NCAA tournaments in his last 4 years. Without that foundation, nothing that Stevens accomplished would have been possible.

Thad Matta was there for only one year, but his subsequent track record as well as his success at Butler in that one season all show that Collier knew how to hire a good coach even back then. Matta took the program to the next level by not only getting them to the tournament, but winning the school's first game in 40 years in NCAA tournament competition.

Todd Lickliter was named national coach of the year while he was at Butler, once again validating Collier's ability to find and hire a good coach. Once again, Butler was taken to a new level under its new coach, getting to two Sweet 16's in Lickliter's tenure. Under Matta and Lickliter, Butler averaged 22 wins per year with a high of 29 wins in Licliter's final season.

Obviously Stevens took the program to a new level. You're not breaking news with that observation. But the point is that he was the 4th coach in succession who had taken Butler to a new level. He built on the accomplishments of his predecessors, on the foundation for the program that they had established. The one constant in all of this was Barry Collier. You talk about him promoting Stevens from within as though it was simply good luck that Stevens was there. You don't think that he had something to do with hiring Stevens as an assistant in the first place? You don't think that he had any role in mentoring Stevens, a young unproven coach when he came to Butler? You think that Stevens took over at Butler and was a finished product?

if you can't recognize what Barry collier has accomplished with the Butler program, that's your problem not mine.

*slow clap*

[Bill Marsh]

Collier did not hire Matta and Lickiter as head coaches. He had gone to Nebraska(where he was mediocre at best- 89-91). The AD at that time hired them as head coaches- not Collier.

He also didn't hire Stevens as an assistant coach- Collier was already at Nebraska in his 2nd year. A lot of that credit goes to Lickliter. Stevens was with Collier for 1 season before he got hired. So no, I don't think Collier had all that much of a role in mentoring Stevens. Like it or not- Stevens was an historically good coach. He is the # 1 coach in terms of wins 1st 3 years. That's a fact. He's the youngest coach ever to go to 2 final 4's. That's a fact. Stevens was 166-49 as Butler's coach. Matta, Lickliter, and Miller are a combined 169-86. Like I said- it's very similar to Boise football and Chris Peterson. The problem with a newbie program like a Boise football/Butler basketball is what happens when the program falls. We've seen in football/basketball way too many times where when a program like that stumbles, they NEVER get back to those levels. You have 1 bad coaching hire- and it just never recovers. I think it's very possible that is what we see with Butler.

And we'll see what happens now. Miller right now has to look like a major questionmark. That's all on Collier.

Fair enough, Stever. Thanks for filling in the gap in my knowledge of Collier's career. I apologize for attributing more to him that was done at Butler than he was actually responsible for.

But let's also not go overboard in giving credit to Lickliter for Stevens' career at Butler. It was Matta, not Lickliter, who hired Stevens into his first job on the coaching staff at Butler.

I'm as big a Stevens fan as anyone, so I have no problem in agreeing that he is an historically great coach. But let's also not pretend that he didn't build on the foundation built by those who went before him at Butler. He inherited a team from Lickliter that was loaded with seniors, had won 29 games, and had gone to the Sweet 16 the year before. There were no significant losses from that team. Those seniors were 5 of the top 6 scorers on Stevens' first team.

And let's not diminish Collier's role in building the Butler program. He is the one who turned the program from a perennial loser into a perennial winner and NCAA tournament team. While it's true that he didn't hire Matta or Lickliter, he did hire Stevens. To claim that he simply inherited Stevens is not fair. He could have hired from outside; it was his decision to hire internally. He interviewed all 3 assistants from Lickliter's staff. He could have hired any one of them or he could have hired none of them. It was his decision to hire Stevens' and he deserves credit for that.

If you think that Collier had no role in mentoring Stevens, then you live in a different world than I do. Any AD who has formerly been a head coach and who is at a school where basketball is the top sport, is going to be very heavily involved with a new coach - especially when that coach is young and has zero HC experience. I'm sure that Stevens would be the first to acknowledge that.

The fact is that Butler has made a steady progression over the past 25 years under 5 different head coaches to get to the point where it is today. The program improved under every one of those coaches up to Miller. That tells me that this is a program, not just the achievement of one coach despite the fact that Stevens is the guy who took them to their pinnacle. Although Stevens assisted, Lickliter is the guy who brought Matt Howard into the program, the one constant on both title R/U teams. It was Lickliter's success that gave the team a profile off which Stevens could recruit. It was Collier who built the program up from the ground and it was Collier who hire 2 of the other 4 coaches.

Again I have confidence in the Butler program and I have confidence in Barry Collier as the man at the helm.

[MUPanther]

As a season ticket holder to a Horizon League school as well, Butler was winning and making Sweet 16's before Brad Stevens.

[stever20]

As a season ticket holder to a Horizon League school as well, Butler was winning and making Sweet 16's before Brad Stevens.

true- but Butler wasn't getting into the Big East either before Brad Stevens. It was Stevens who took that program to a whole another level.

And like it or not- Miller has to go on Collier's record as a major ding right now. To say Collier who hired 2 of the other 4 coaches- that's including Miller- and right now it looks like he could finish up 14-17. That's 100% on Collier.

All my point is with Butler- with a program that is like they were with unprecidented growth- when that growth stops- it's tough to get that back. 1 bad hire can ravage a situation pretty signifigantly. I mean look at DePaul. Far more history than Butler- They hired Jerry Wainwright and look what has happened since. Maybe Butler gets lucky with MIller there for only 1 year- gives Collier another chance.

[billyjack]

Bill Marsh is correct. Collier built the Butler program. Stevens was amazing, but was 5th in line as far as improving it. Collier is like the Thomas Jefferson of Butler... any success that came after is due to his original brilliance... and he's still there...!

On top of that Butler has built in advantages that Boise State and the Southern Illinois Salukis don't... Indianapolis is a major metro professional city, sitting at "the Crossroads of America", in an area recognized as the heart and soul and nerve center of college basketball... between Hinkle and Milan High and Hoosiers and a century of tradition... Butler is a can't-miss conference mate.

[Professor_Bulldog]

Love that Jefferson reference! Steve you don't have a clue about Butler bball, please take your chronic melancholy elsewhere.

I can only imagine how Steve would be gushing about the stability at Butler since the early 90's if they were in the AAC.

[SJHooper]

Butler will be fine. It's never easy going from mid major to major although Creighton made it look pretty easy their first year which was great. Just wait until you know who your coach is and you will get your share of recruits. Butler is a great academic school with tons of basketball history and a historic venue. Just have to be patient.

[marquette]

As a season ticket holder to a Horizon League school as well, Butler was winning and making Sweet 16's before Brad Stevens.

Butler and UWM (I assume that's what "Panther" means) had a nice little rivalry going in the early 2000's. Horizon league was legit for about a decade there.

Butler is going to be fine. Butler couldn't be more different from Boise State. Location, history, recognition (let's not pretend that the average fan doesn't know about Butler), league affiliation, tv contract, resources, etc. Butler is well positioned. It might have been nice to have a couple more transition years in the A10, but the circumstances were what they were.