Butler head coach Brandon Miller Taking Leave of Absence

[billyjack]

Butler is perfect for the conference. They've hit a couple of speedbumps recently, but they're great for the Big East. They're already a household name nationally. And I've only heard great things about their interim coach.

[stever20]

OK, I get it. This has turned into a dump on Butler's recruits thread. I will instruct the Butler staff to run all potential scholarship offers by this board before they are given out, because this board obviously knows more about these players than the staff. With exact science resources such as the 24/7 and Rivals listings, why does anyone bother with visiting and talking to recruits. The school with the #1 recruiting class ALWAYS wins the NCAA tourney. Geezzzz.

I'm sorry- but Butler does need to upgrade their talent level. You can act like the recruits coming in are program changers- but they wouldn't be even considered by other top Big East schools- with the exception of a transfer. There generally is a difference between a kid recruited #4 in the nation and a kid ranked #200 in the nation. I coach girls basketball and a few years ago my team played the #35 girl in the country. She had moves that I had never seen a girl make before. There is that big of a difference...

You can act like the 24/7 and Rivals don't mean anything- but they are far more accurate than not.

It just amazes me how especially with Butler- there is so much of that mid-major mentality. Haven't seen it anywhere near as much here with Creighton or Xavier- but Butler- it's like total mid-major. At least some of the fans.

Far be it from me to defend Butler, but in the past 5 years they've gone to two national title games (2010 and 2011). Leading up to those years they had the following recruiting classes:

2007: 1-4 star, 1-3 star, 2 2-stars, highest ranked #91
2008: 3-3 stars, 1-2 star, no nationally ranked players
2009: 1-3 star, no nationally ranked players
2010: 2-3 stars, 1-0 star, #118 and #124 ranked
2011: 3-3 stars, #129 ranked nationally

Now, I would guess that there isn't a team in the new Big East from the east coast that had that low of ranked classes over that time period.. yet, there isn't a legacy Big East team that can claim that level of accomplishment. Something the people on the east coast don't realize is that not everyone gets the same level of attention as the kid from Philly or NY, there are tons of kids out in the midwest who aren't found until it's too late.. Sure, some get noticed, but there's still a big pool of talent that people don't realize until they hit the court in D1 -- Indiana in particular has a ton of skilled players who are perfect for Butler's system.

In any case, once you get outside of the top 25, there's a lot of variance from 25 through 150.. and maybe even through 250. It all depends on the system, the kid, the work ethic and how much more they can develop.

Their biggest problem has been the coaching change. Is Miller the right guy to lead that team? Maybe, but he's had a lot of bad luck including his illness and at this point we don't know if he's the right guy. Certainly the illness throws another level of doubt over the program, but to me the idea that he's not recruiting like the rest of the Big East isn't a valid compliant given the way they've run that program.

The thing was that #91 kid was Matt Howard- lynchpin of the 2 years. They had 1 great recruiting class(2008). Butler hasn't shown since they've left that they can consistently compete. Didn't make the tourney in 2011-12, made the tourney but faded in the A10 in 2012-13, and then last year's 4-14.

I will give you the bit about the coaching change.... Terrible timing for Butler for sure.

The problem for Butler is similar to what Boise State is facing in football. Both were real good- 4 years ago. They aren't a household name- definitely not the same as Georgetown or Villanova in the Big East(or a lot of other schools nationwide).

[billyjack]

Since early summer, someone on this board has walked us through a Top-144 College Hoops Countdown, and discussed its finer points as if it was gospel.

At the same time, that countdown has placed Butler as the #51 team in the nation. At #51, Butler is ranked higher than Florida State, NC State, Cincinnati, Illinois, Washington, New Mexico, etc, etc, etc.

Considering the two statements above, how could that same person have the stones to try to dump on Butler and their current level of talent in any way...? How could their recruiting be considered sucky (by this large-stoned person) since their 2008 class, while at the same time they are ranked #51, ahead of more than half the ACC, PAC-12, SEC, etc...?

[R to the OB]

Seriously, Stever, just stop. This is completely ridiculous. You've repeatedly made an argument, then argued the opposite. It's honestly sad.
Admin, can we please give Stever the posting vacation we've talked about in the past? Maybe then we can finally have constructive debates...

[GumbyDamnit!]

Seriously, Stever, just stop. This is completely ridiculous. You've repeatedly made an argument, then argued the opposite. It's honestly sad.
Admin, can we please give Stever the posting vacation we've talked about in the past? Maybe then we can finally have constructive debates...

Stever is fine...he plays his role. Backhanded compliments, expectations management, general doom & gloom and Devil's Advocate are things that he has mastered. I believe he belongs. It's America afterall...everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Butler is also fine. I actually like their team this year. I think they can def end up in the top half of the league. I'm glad they are in the BE; their track record is much better than most, teams in this league. And lastly at the end of the day no one really knows how good these recruits are going to be until after they start playing. Darrun Hilliard was not a Top 150 HS recruit I believe (def not Top 100) and JW got all kind of heat on the Nova boards about recruiting a kid who was not a "BE caliber player." Now as a Sr. he is one of 2-3 guys that are favorites for BE POY.

[XtoDC]

A huge thing to remember when it comes to recruiting is who is offering the kid a scholarship? If Brad Stevens is offering a kid a scholarship I don't really care about what his ranking is, I have a good feeling that kid knows how to play basketball. There was no need to worry about Butler's recruiting at the time. Now though with Brandon Miller, we have no clue if he can recognize talent or not. As fans then, the recruiting ranking matters a lot more when it comes to projecting the talent of the team going forward.

[stever20]

A huge thing to remember when it comes to recruiting is who is offering the kid a scholarship? If Brad Stevens is offering a kid a scholarship I don't really care about what his ranking is, I have a good feeling that kid knows how to play basketball. There was no need to worry about Butler's recruiting at the time. Now though with Brandon Miller, we have no clue if he can recognize talent or not. As fans then, the recruiting ranking matters a lot more when it comes to projecting the talent of the team going forward.

I think that's a good point. Also just as importatnly- Stevens could teach the game really well and develop a player. Who knows if Miller can do that?

[Jet915]

Nice article on Butler's new interim coach:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/chris-holtmann-guide-butler-through-transition-period-with-a-steady-hand-164217650.html

[Bill Marsh]

I have faith in the Butler program because of one guy. And it's not Brad Stevens.

Barry Collier

He started building this program 25 years ago. He's the one who coached them to their first 20 win season and their first postseason appearance in recent memory. Every coach he's hired since he because AD has been a great hire. He does things the Butler way, which is his way, and as long as he is in charge, I believe that this program will continue to thrive even if their is an occasional set back.

[stever20]

I have faith in the Butler program because of one guy. And it's not Brad Stevens.

Barry Collier

He started building this program 25 years ago. He's the one who coached them to their first 20 win season and their first postseason appearance in recent memory. Every coach he's hired since he because AD has been a great hire. He does things the Butler way, which is his way, and as long as he is in charge, I believe that this program will continue to thrive even if their is an occasional set back.

I'm sorry- but Butler really became Butler when Stevens came around. Collier didn't win a single NCAA tourney game at Butler. None. Matta and Lichliter won a total of 5 NCAA games while at Butler. Stevens won 12 in 6 years. To give Collier credit for Stevens is kind of comical- Stevens was the associate head coach so to decide to hire from within Stevens would automatically be the guy there. It was Stevens that had 5 26+ win years-including 2 30 win seasons. Similar to Boise- Stevens elevated that program to a whole new stratosphere. Stevens is why Butler is in the Big East right now, period.