If SJU Can Pull This Off

[SJHooper]

Back on topic Jerry Meyer switched his crystal ball prediction for Briscoe to St Johns it seems like the visit went well

Saw that. Bulldog, I appreciate some good debate too I appreciate your POV. I do think the UA gear we have is better than Mizzou also. It's good news about the rumors with Briscoe, but I've been there and done that and been shocked at the last second so I will wait for a verbal. It would be a major get and Briscoe would help land other recruits for sure.

[NJRedman]

Hooper, you're an idiot. How about we change the name to the St. John's Guineas?

[Hall2012]

On the nickname thing- I think St. John's was right to change their name from Redmen and the Redskins should too. The big difference between them and other sports teams with Indian names is that redskin/redman is historically considered a racial slur. It's a derogatory term for native americans. There's nothing derogatory about names such as Seminoles, Braves, Chiefs, etc.

On the recruiting thing, the reports are out there that all 3 big recruits really enjoyed their visit, which is obviously a good thing. But at the same time, has any recruit ever said that a visit went horribly and they hated it?

[SJHooper]

On the nickname thing- I think St. John's was right to change their name from Redmen and the Redskins should too. The big difference between them and other sports teams with Indian names is that redskin/redman is historically considered a racial slur. It's a derogatory term for native americans. There's nothing derogatory about names such as Seminoles, Braves, Chiefs, etc.

On the recruiting thing, the reports are out there that all 3 big recruits really enjoyed their visit, which is obviously a good thing. But at the same time, has any recruit ever said that a visit went horribly and they hated it?

Some will argue that even the Chiefs, FSU, and other teams still portray Indian stereotypes and make a mockery of their culture. So there should either be zero Indian references or all you want. When there is a gray area is when you get into trouble. All or nothing. It would be the same as saying the Iowa Whitemen or Whiteskins. Nothing derogatory about it. Redskin is a physical feature…many Indians covered themselves in red clay and even referred to each other as Redskins. They had red skin…big deal. The whiteskins wouldn't matter. We simply live in the times of a booming grievance industry as I said before. People love being sensitive and forcing their will to make changes. To this day I have never heard the term "redskin" used in any other light except the football team which is my point…nothing else comes to mind except that. The n word is different and guinea is different because those are clearly meant to defame blacks and italians. Their only meanings are negative. The Indians had red skin due to the clay they put on. How is that racist? It's like saying Italians having olive skin is racist. How? It's true. Truth is not racism that's what people need to understand. The logo was also developed by an Indian and is not some cartoonish caricature like the Cleveland Indians which I could agree crosses the line. It looks like a very typical strong Indian man with honor and pride. It's time that people stopped worrying about stuff 200 years ago and let it go already. Living your life in the distant past not only kills race relations, but creates unnecessary drama and tension. No one today uses that term outside of the NFL team period. If it weren't used for the NFL team it would be virtually nonexistent.

And back to IB and the recruits, IB's father loves us. He said he was even more impressed than before. He didn't expect campus to be so nice. A lot of people assume it will be a bunch of project looking buildings in Queens with a gritty feel, but it's actually kept up with very well and there are lots of new buildings. It's really more suburban in nature right across from residential blocks of houses with lawns. It's safe and surprises people. I think Briscoe's decision comes down to how much influence his father has on him. I say if it were up to his father he'd go to SJ. IB even said it's really close to home and playing at the Garden would be awesome. So that hints to me that he still kind of wants to stay home. But we will see. I won't be shocked in the least if experts say he's a SJ lean and goes to UK/UConn/Mizzou at the 11th hour. Sampson doesn't seem to care much he just said the visit was "good". Didn't look thrilled at all on campus almost like he was forced to visit. Diallo is a question mark. Probably ends up in Iowa State or Kansas. IB is the one we really need to get.

[Hall2012]

On the nickname thing- I think St. John's was right to change their name from Redmen and the Redskins should too. The big difference between them and other sports teams with Indian names is that redskin/redman is historically considered a racial slur. It's a derogatory term for native americans. There's nothing derogatory about names such as Seminoles, Braves, Chiefs, etc.

On the recruiting thing, the reports are out there that all 3 big recruits really enjoyed their visit, which is obviously a good thing. But at the same time, has any recruit ever said that a visit went horribly and they hated it?

Some will argue that even the Chiefs, FSU, and other teams still portray Indian stereotypes and make a mockery of their culture. So there should either be zero Indian references or all you want. When there is a gray area is when you get into trouble. All or nothing. It would be the same as saying the Iowa Whitemen or Whiteskins. Nothing derogatory about it. Redskin is a physical feature…many Indians covered themselves in red clay and even referred to each other as Redskins. They had red skin…big deal. The whiteskins wouldn't matter. We simply live in the times of a booming grievance industry as I said before. People love being sensitive and forcing their will to make changes. To this day I have never heard the term "redskin" used in any other light except the football team which is my point…nothing else comes to mind except that. The n word is different and guinea is different because those are clearly meant to defame blacks and italians. Their only meanings are negative. The Indians had red skin due to the clay they put on. How is that racist? It's like saying Italians having olive skin is racist. How? It's true. Truth is not racism that's what people need to understand. The logo was also developed by an Indian and is not some cartoonish caricature like the Cleveland Indians which I could agree crosses the line. It looks like a very typical strong Indian man with honor and pride. It's time that people stopped worrying about stuff 200 years ago and let it go already. Living your life in the distant past not only kills race relations, but creates unnecessary drama and tension. No one today uses that term outside of the NFL team period. If it weren't used for the NFL team it would be virtually nonexistent.

And back to IB and the recruits, IB's father loves us. He said he was even more impressed than before. He didn't expect campus to be so nice. A lot of people assume it will be a bunch of project looking buildings in Queens with a gritty feel, but it's actually kept up with very well and there are lots of new buildings. It's really more suburban in nature right across from residential blocks of houses with lawns. It's safe and surprises people. I think Briscoe's decision comes down to how much influence his father has on him. I say if it were up to his father he'd go to SJ. IB even said it's really close to home and playing at the Garden would be awesome. So that hints to me that he still kind of wants to stay home. But we will see. I won't be shocked in the least if experts say he's a SJ lean and goes to UK/UConn/Mizzou at the 11th hour. Sampson doesn't seem to care much he just said the visit was "good". Didn't look thrilled at all on campus almost like he was forced to visit. Diallo is a question mark. Probably ends up in Iowa State or Kansas. IB is the one we really need to get.

Agree to disagree on the Indian names thing. I see nothing offensive about Indian references in general for sports team names (and have no problem with the Redskins' logo), but I see the term redskin/redman as a label with a negative connotation to it more so than just a descriptive word. I agree, I don't believe I've heard it used in that context anytime recently, but that doesn't mean the context doesn't exist.

On Briscoe, I completely agree that I his father has his way, Isaiah will end up at St. John's. I see absolutely no way he ends up at Mizzou. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see what they offer. St. John's offers a chance to stay close to home, play at MSG, and play 40 mins/game. Kentucky offers the opportunity to showcase for one of the biggest hoops schools in the country and possibly the best/fastest route to the NBA (he could very well be 1 and done anywhere, but Calipari pumps them out of his program more than anybody), and UConn offers the chance to play for the defending champs, most dominant program over the past 15 years, and a chance to play for a national championship. Kentucky and UConn are the kinds of programs that can jump in late on a top recruit and still have a chance, Mizzou isn't.

We don't even know for sure if he'll commit in the fall. If he does wait until spring, will he at least cut his list? Which as far as I know consists of the 4 schools mentioned above plus SHU- but I just don't see the fit there. Obviously any program can make room for a talent like Briscoe, but they're already loaded at guard for 2015 with Whitehead (now expected to stay 2 years), Sina who will be a junior and Gibbs who will be a senior.

[NJRedman]

On the nickname thing- I think St. John's was right to change their name from Redmen and the Redskins should too. The big difference between them and other sports teams with Indian names is that redskin/redman is historically considered a racial slur. It's a derogatory term for native americans. There's nothing derogatory about names such as Seminoles, Braves, Chiefs, etc.

On the recruiting thing, the reports are out there that all 3 big recruits really enjoyed their visit, which is obviously a good thing. But at the same time, has any recruit ever said that a visit went horribly and they hated it?

Some will argue that even the Chiefs, FSU, and other teams still portray Indian stereotypes and make a mockery of their culture. So there should either be zero Indian references or all you want. When there is a gray area is when you get into trouble. All or nothing. It would be the same as saying the Iowa Whitemen or Whiteskins. Nothing derogatory about it. Redskin is a physical feature…many Indians covered themselves in red clay and even referred to each other as Redskins. They had red skin…big deal. The whiteskins wouldn't matter. We simply live in the times of a booming grievance industry as I said before. People love being sensitive and forcing their will to make changes. To this day I have never heard the term "redskin" used in any other light except the football team which is my point…nothing else comes to mind except that. The n word is different and guinea is different because those are clearly meant to defame blacks and italians. Their only meanings are negative. The Indians had red skin due to the clay they put on. How is that racist? It's like saying Italians having olive skin is racist. How? It's true. Truth is not racism that's what people need to understand. The logo was also developed by an Indian and is not some cartoonish caricature like the Cleveland Indians which I could agree crosses the line. It looks like a very typical strong Indian man with honor and pride. It's time that people stopped worrying about stuff 200 years ago and let it go already. Living your life in the distant past not only kills race relations, but creates unnecessary drama and tension. No one today uses that term outside of the NFL team period. If it weren't used for the NFL team it would be virtually nonexistent.

And back to IB and the recruits, IB's father loves us. He said he was even more impressed than before. He didn't expect campus to be so nice. A lot of people assume it will be a bunch of project looking buildings in Queens with a gritty feel, but it's actually kept up with very well and there are lots of new buildings. It's really more suburban in nature right across from residential blocks of houses with lawns. It's safe and surprises people. I think Briscoe's decision comes down to how much influence his father has on him. I say if it were up to his father he'd go to SJ. IB even said it's really close to home and playing at the Garden would be awesome. So that hints to me that he still kind of wants to stay home. But we will see. I won't be shocked in the least if experts say he's a SJ lean and goes to UK/UConn/Mizzou at the 11th hour. Sampson doesn't seem to care much he just said the visit was "good". Didn't look thrilled at all on campus almost like he was forced to visit. Diallo is a question mark. Probably ends up in Iowa State or Kansas. IB is the one we really need to get.

Oh my god SHUT THE F UP!!! Read what other people write!!! FSU got the full support of the seminole tribe you moron!!! White people aren't a repressed minority and native americans don't actually have red skin!!! Get out of Staten Island and stop this white mans burden bullchit. It's racially insensitive, just because you are not offended doesn't mean others aren't. I doubt you ever met an actual native american in your life and yet here you are trying to say they don't mind it and in fact use it. You are an embarrassment to St. John's. I'd rather you didn't tell people we went to the same school. Your ignorance is outstanding.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/189af ... ing-racism

http://deadspin.com/cleveland-indians-f ... 1558499738

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hea ... ome-opener

Oh and how did you like my idea of the St. John's Guineas? How about the St. John's WOP's? St. John's Dago's? Those aren't offensive to Italians at all.

[XtoDC]

On the nickname thing- I think St. John's was right to change their name from Redmen and the Redskins should too. The big difference between them and other sports teams with Indian names is that redskin/redman is historically considered a racial slur. It's a derogatory term for native americans. There's nothing derogatory about names such as Seminoles, Braves, Chiefs, etc.

On the recruiting thing, the reports are out there that all 3 big recruits really enjoyed their visit, which is obviously a good thing. But at the same time, has any recruit ever said that a visit went horribly and they hated it?

Some will argue that even the Chiefs, FSU, and other teams still portray Indian stereotypes and make a mockery of their culture. So there should either be zero Indian references or all you want. When there is a gray area is when you get into trouble. All or nothing. It would be the same as saying the Iowa Whitemen or Whiteskins. Nothing derogatory about it. Redskin is a physical feature…many Indians covered themselves in red clay and even referred to each other as Redskins. They had red skin…big deal. The whiteskins wouldn't matter. We simply live in the times of a booming grievance industry as I said before. People love being sensitive and forcing their will to make changes. To this day I have never heard the term "redskin" used in any other light except the football team which is my point…nothing else comes to mind except that. The n word is different and guinea is different because those are clearly meant to defame blacks and italians. Their only meanings are negative. The Indians had red skin due to the clay they put on. How is that racist? It's like saying Italians having olive skin is racist. How? It's true. Truth is not racism that's what people need to understand. The logo was also developed by an Indian and is not some cartoonish caricature like the Cleveland Indians which I could agree crosses the line. It looks like a very typical strong Indian man with honor and pride. It's time that people stopped worrying about stuff 200 years ago and let it go already. Living your life in the distant past not only kills race relations, but creates unnecessary drama and tension. No one today uses that term outside of the NFL team period. If it weren't used for the NFL team it would be virtually nonexistent.

And back to IB and the recruits, IB's father loves us. He said he was even more impressed than before. He didn't expect campus to be so nice. A lot of people assume it will be a bunch of project looking buildings in Queens with a gritty feel, but it's actually kept up with very well and there are lots of new buildings. It's really more suburban in nature right across from residential blocks of houses with lawns. It's safe and surprises people. I think Briscoe's decision comes down to how much influence his father has on him. I say if it were up to his father he'd go to SJ. IB even said it's really close to home and playing at the Garden would be awesome. So that hints to me that he still kind of wants to stay home. But we will see. I won't be shocked in the least if experts say he's a SJ lean and goes to UK/UConn/Mizzou at the 11th hour. Sampson doesn't seem to care much he just said the visit was "good". Didn't look thrilled at all on campus almost like he was forced to visit. Diallo is a question mark. Probably ends up in Iowa State or Kansas. IB is the one we really need to get.

Oh my god SHUT THE F UP!!! Read what other people write!!! FSU got the full support of the seminole tribe you moron!!! White people aren't a repressed minority and native americans don't actually have red skin!!! Get out of Staten Island and stop this white mans burden bullchit. It's racially insensitive, just because you are not offended doesn't mean others aren't. I doubt you ever met an actual native american in your life and yet here you are trying to say they don't mind it and in fact use it. You are an embarrassment to St. John's. I'd rather you didn't tell people we went to the same school. Your ignorance is outstanding.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/189af ... ing-racism

http://deadspin.com/cleveland-indians-f ... 1558499738

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hea ... ome-opener

Oh and how did you like my idea of the St. John's Guineas? How about the St. John's WOP's? St. John's Dago's? Those aren't offensive to Italians at all.

Oh c'mon NJRedmen! Can't you see that there is zero difference between an Arizona high school made up of mostly Native Americans calling themselves Redskins or Florida State working with and engaging the local Native American community and calling themselves the Seminoles, vs. a college or pro football team with basically no connection to Native Americans calling themselves Redmen or Redskins? Those are clearly identical situations! Just like how Notre Dame has plenty of administrators and alumni who are Irish Catholic, but would definitely not find it offensive at all if a group of Latinos created a team called the Fighting Irish with almost zero input or direction from Irish Catholics in how they run their organization. There is no such thing as white privilege, you can trust me, as a white male I am something of an authority on the subject.

End s/

[DudeAnon]

My 2 thoughts on the mascot:

1. Who cares
2. Using the ole' gut, the Native American mascots need to go, just doesn't feel right.

[SJHooper]

NJRedman, you need to relax and learn how to properly debate like an adult, not type in all caps and start cursing, throwing tantrums. This is a free country and my opinion matters too. White privilege is nothing more than a liberal tool to shame whites and keep race relations strained. Liberals don't want minorities off their plantation, so they have to keep selling them the grievance industry i.e. evil racist whitey is holding you down. White privilege is by its definition racist which is the ironic part coming from liberals. It essentially says that white people don't and can't earn anything honestly through hard work and honor. It says that everything whites accomplish is because of skin color. It groups one entire race into one category "privileged". Judging an entire race and labeling them is racism in its purest sense. If you want me to shoot it down I can but I'm not going to waste my time on this thread.

The fact is that people are WAY too sensitive and are petrified of being seen as racist even when they clearly aren't. If the Redskins are racist then so is FSU. You say they got the blessing of the Seminole tribe? Well guess what? The Redskins have the blessing of many Indians as well and an Indian even created the logo. Ok, so you say the name Redskins vs. Seminoles is the difference right? Well, many in the PC crowd will argue that ANY Indian mascot is racist and demeaning. They will tell you that using an Indian or tribe as a mascot mocks and stereotypes the culture. So FSU is just as guilty as the Redskins in that regard. There is no need to pander to a very tiny minority of people, many of which couldn't care less about the football team. Anyone with an objective mind who knows it's 2014 and not 1823 knows that the word Redskins is never used aside from the football reference. So how can it be demeaning? NJRedman do you find it ironic that you are a bleeding heart who condemns the word "Redskins", yet has a username with "Redman" in it? I find that utterly racist and vile! How's that for taking your own medicine?

The latest on the recruiting front is that IB is sitting down with his parents and will likely decide within a week or two. SHU and Rutgers are basically out. Diallo is not mentioned at all as being a SJ lean so he's basically gone. Sampson news has been quiet too and I don't like that. I feel like he stays home. Our only real shot it seems is IB.

[NJRedman]

NJRedman, you need to relax and learn how to properly debate like an adult, not type in all caps and start cursing, throwing tantrums. This is a free country and my opinion matters too. White privilege is nothing more than a liberal tool to shame whites and keep race relations strained. Liberals don't want minorities off their plantation, so they have to keep selling them the grievance industry i.e. evil racist whitey is holding you down. White privilege is by its definition racist which is the ironic part coming from liberals. It essentially says that white people don't and can't earn anything honestly through hard work and honor. It says that everything whites accomplish is because of skin color. It groups one entire race into one category "privileged". Judging an entire race and labeling them is racism in its purest sense. If you want me to shoot it down I can but I'm not going to waste my time on this thread.

The fact is that people are WAY too sensitive and are petrified of being seen as racist even when they clearly aren't. If the Redskins are racist then so is FSU. You say they got the blessing of the Seminole tribe? Well guess what? The Redskins have the blessing of many Indians as well and an Indian even created the logo. Ok, so you say the name Redskins vs. Seminoles is the difference right? Well, many in the PC crowd will argue that ANY Indian mascot is racist and demeaning. They will tell you that using an Indian or tribe as a mascot mocks and stereotypes the culture. So FSU is just as guilty as the Redskins in that regard. There is no need to pander to a very tiny minority of people, many of which couldn't care less about the football team. Anyone with an objective mind who knows it's 2014 and not 1823 knows that the word Redskins is never used aside from the football reference. So how can it be demeaning? NJRedman do you find it ironic that you are a bleeding heart who condemns the word "Redskins", yet has a username with "Redman" in it? I find that utterly racist and vile! How's that for taking your own medicine?

The latest on the recruiting front is that IB is sitting down with his parents and will likely decide within a week or two. SHU and Rutgers are basically out. Diallo is not mentioned at all as being a SJ lean so he's basically gone. Sampson news has been quiet too and I don't like that. I feel like he stays home. Our only real shot it seems is IB.

It's not a debate, a debate is when people use real facts. Not BS made up stuff like "Most indians don't find it offensive and use it themselves" and "Native Americans have red skin". I don't know how someone so ignorant has a college degree and every time you open your mouth you are making the rest of us look bad through your sheer ignorance. I know you never left the bubble of Staten Island, so it's not a shock to me when you say these stupid things like "liberals are racist", yeah thats why minorities vote D instead of R, because they are racist. You do know minorities can be liberal too right and most are?

Like I said, you don't know chit about chit and even in your posts about BBall you come across as ill informed and reactionary at best. You make yourself and the rest of the SJU community look bad every time you post.

Oh and if you can't tell the difference between me, a fan posting on a forum and a school or privately owned team profiting off of the same name then there is no hope for you.

Please stop telling people you went to SJU, you'd be doing the school and the alumni a big favor.

The Navajo Tribal Council voted 9-2 in April to oppose the name.

http://deadspin.com/disgraced-soon-to-b ... 1645509844

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/30/the_sad ... acts_site/

http://deadspin.com/is-the-redskins-vip ... 1642991295

http://deadspin.com/is-the-redskins-vip ... ve-mckenna

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... kins-name/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lindseyadler/na ... ur#2lirtaw

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/05 ... kins-name/

Oh and here is the story about FSU and the Seminole Nation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/sport ... d=all&_r=0