If SJU Can Pull This Off

[SJHooper]

Redmen and Redskins are not racist at all. The Redskins logo was even created by an Indian. Most see it as an honor to have an NFL team in their name in a sense of power, tradition, and pride. These are terms that Indians themselves use. If you can't have one Indian reference because people are too PC and sensitive then no one should have them including FSU and the Atlanta Braves. If people are that sensitive then the message should be to stop using any and all references period. Then they would complain that they are being removed from popular culture and they aren't being honored. You can't win either way. An easy compromise would have been to call us the St. John's Redmen but take all Indian references out of it. Kind of like the Syracuse Orangemen (before the PC crowd said they can't have men in it). Simply have a random mascot like the big red blob at WKU and go on your way. The world does not have to end because people are offended. The fact is it's simply a vocal minority making all these demands, not the majority. When people say Redskins today no one thinks of Indians in a negative light. People think "football team". That's it. Same with Redmen if they were still our name. They'd be simply known as the "basketball team".

This PC culture is killing traditions and creating victims where there are none. Did the Irish people around the world have to sign off on the Fighting Irish? Do they even care? No. They love it. They understand it's not demeaning and actually honors them in a warrior spirit. If you can't see the difference between a racial slur being used against you in a derogatory fashion and a sports team honoring Indians then you are part of the problem. What's next…telling South Carolina they can't be the Gamecocks because they think it's a derogatory slur?

[Professor_Bulldog]

Not being snarky, just out of curiosity. Who are these "most" Indians you note. I've gotten the feeling that the majority of Native Americans are against the name.

Being snarky. I feel that by your logic, since many African Americans use the n-word then the St. John's Niggers is something you'd totally be cool with. I mean imagine the sense of pride, honor, and tradition from being associated with the bball history.

[SJHooper]

Not being snarky, just out of curiosity. Who are these "most" Indians you note. I've gotten the feeling that the majority of Native Americans are against the name.

Being snarky. I feel that by your logic, since many African Americans use the n-word then the St. John's Niggers is something you'd totally be cool with. I mean imagine the sense of pride, honor, and tradition from being associated with the bball history.

The N word and Redmen are on opposite spectrums. I never heard of anyone yelling "GOD DAMN REDMEN!" at an Indian in disgust. Come on man not even close. Indians themselves are in videos defending the team name saying that they are the ones who came up with the name and use it normally. There was a poll shown months ago that suggested that the majority of Americans don't have a problem with it and that the majority of Indians don't have a problem with it either. The Redskins themselves interviewed people at a tailgate and some were of Indian heritage and said they felt honored by having a warrior-like image rich in history and tradition. It's clearly about pride. No NFL team has a name that is meant to appear negative. Why would the Washington Redskins want to be seen as a a racist joke? This is only an issue in 2014 because everything is so PC now and there is a booming grievance industry IMO. I'll even admit that the Cleveland Indians logo as well as the old St. John's logo did appear a little insensitive in terms of the caricature of Indians, but the names themselves are nothing but tributes.

The Redskins are also a business and want to preserve their brand and tradition. They have that right. You have to realize that some people protest just to protest. It's not really keeping Indians up at night, they are just angry historically that their land was purchased/taken in wars by another people so that's how they try to get back by destroying a brand that makes money. There will always be things that offend people. That doesn't mean you have to change names or pander to people. If I were the Redskins, I'd keep the name but donate a percentage of all revenue to a local tribe. Look at all the sports teams with Indian mascots and names. Not one defames them. They are all clearly meant to instill a sense of honor, pride, and strength in connection with that culture. What team would knowingly seek to take on a name that makes a mockery of a race of people? None.

[SJHooper]

By the way, Isaiah Briscoe spotted outside MSG with what appears to be his girlfriend (or maybe just friend) in a SJ sweatshirt. I'm surprised we haven't heard anything since the tip off about his chances coming here. I guess it's a good sign but then again he tried on Mizzou gear too in Mizzou. I just want this recruitment to end already. The sooner we see what happens with IB the sooner we can move on.

[Professor_Bulldog]

Just playing devils advocate, but because you've never heard the term redskin or redman in a derogatory way doesn't mean it's not happened nor prevelant.I would also be hesitant to believe anything put out by the redskins organization as fact, because as a brand they would spin anything in their favor.

It's also easy as a white guy to say just get over it. Personally, I don't get the big deal. For example, my mom's family is all fresh from the old country Greek. I think the spartan nickname is great and makes for some pretty bad ass logos. If I chose my college based on team logos I'd be Mich. St all the way. But I also can't comprehend the factors associated with being a minority in this county, especially one that is historically and sometimes presently discriminated against. In this sense, the use of a cultures names, images, etc become just another aspect of their marginalization in society as a whole. Does this mean we should change names and logos? I don't know, but I think it's a conversation worth having.

The real question is, what college branded boxer shorts are IB wearing?????

[SJHooper]

Just playing devils advocate, but because you've never heard the term redskin or redman in a derogatory way doesn't mean it's not happened nor prevelant.I would also be hesitant to believe anything put out by the redskins organization as fact, because as a brand they would spin anything in their favor.

It's also easy as a white guy to say just get over it. Personally, I don't get the big deal. For example, my mom's family is all fresh from the old country Greek. I think the spartan nickname is great and makes for some pretty bad ass logos. If I chose my college based on team logos I'd be Mich. St all the way. But I also can't comprehend the factors associated with being a minority in this county, especially one that is historically and sometimes presently discriminated against. In this sense, the use of a cultures names, images, etc become just another aspect of their marginalization in society as a whole. Does this mean we should change names and logos? I don't know, but I think it's a conversation worth having.

The real question is, what college branded boxer shorts are IB wearing?????

I respectfully disagree and I can hear a white privilege rant coming lol. My ancestors came from Italy (Sicily to be exact) dirt poor living in inner-city Brooklyn. My uncle had to change schools on Long Island in the 1960's because he was called a "guinea". That's how bad it got. He is now doing very well. The fact is that this country was founded by old white men and that seems to bother lots of people. This country is founded on European culture, so if it bothers people no one is being forced to stay. Why should Indians have huge influence on the country when they are a tiny minority? Where else in the world does the minority rule the masses? If you went to Japan as a minority and claimed there was Japanese privilege they'd laugh at you and ignore you. There is no such thing as white privilege. It's all about the country's largest demographic having the power. In Japan the asians set the culture and have the power, in Zimbabwe the blacks set the culture and have the power, in Mexico the hispanics set the culture and have the power. You can move where you are instantly the majority. No one holds people back. Don't judge people by their words, judge them by their actions. If Indians claim it's that bad living here but don't want to move then you know it's not that bad. What happened to them was a shame but is not unique at all in history. They were simply a people who got taken over by a technologically more advanced and powerful people. Such was life back then. If it wasn't Europeans it would have been another group to take the land over. Back in those days it was very darwin-esque. Redskins just is not offensive. I'm Italian and if they named a team the New York Olive Skins I wouldn't care. We have to stop getting political based on emotion and be logical. Logically there is no argument that the name is offensive. It's never used in common language except when referring to the football team and fans love the team. If anything you could argue there is Indian privilege in that their culture gets glamorized in sports teams i.e. Braves, FSU, Redskins, etc. while there are no white equivalents except maybe the Fighting Irish. I would be honored if my heritage was the mascot of a team. I know lots of Irish-Americans who love ND just because they are the Fighting Irish. The same is definitely true for FSU, the Braves, and Redskins. So I just don't buy it that a majority of Indians are honestly outraged.

Back to Briscoe, turns out that girl in the picture is his sister not girlfriend…awkward lol. I don't know if it's a good sign that he has been taking longer with his recruitment and not jumping to UConn, UK, or Mizzou….or if that's a bad thing that no rumors have come out that he's leaning towards SJ.

[Bill Marsh]

How in the world did this thread about an interesting St. John's recruiting question get side tracked onto a boring rant about Nick names?

[Amase2]

How in the world did this thread about an interesting St. John's recruiting question get side tracked onto a boring rant about Nick names?

+ Juan

[Professor_Bulldog]

Just playing devils advocate, but because you've never heard the term redskin or redman in a derogatory way doesn't mean it's not happened nor prevelant.I would also be hesitant to believe anything put out by the redskins organization as fact, because as a brand they would spin anything in their favor.

It's also easy as a white guy to say just get over it. Personally, I don't get the big deal. For example, my mom's family is all fresh from the old country Greek. I think the spartan nickname is great and makes for some pretty bad ass logos. If I chose my college based on team logos I'd be Mich. St all the way. But I also can't comprehend the factors associated with being a minority in this county, especially one that is historically and sometimes presently discriminated against. In this sense, the use of a cultures names, images, etc become just another aspect of their marginalization in society as a whole. Does this mean we should change names and logos? I don't know, but I think it's a conversation worth having.

The real question is, what college branded boxer shorts are IB wearing?????

I respectfully disagree and I can hear a white privilege rant coming lol. My ancestors came from Italy (Sicily to be exact) dirt poor living in inner-city Brooklyn. My uncle had to change schools on Long Island in the 1960's because he was called a "guinea". That's how bad it got. He is now doing very well. The fact is that this country was founded by old white men and that seems to bother lots of people. This country is founded on European culture, so if it bothers people no one is being forced to stay. Why should Indians have huge influence on the country when they are a tiny minority? Where else in the world does the minority rule the masses? If you went to Japan as a minority and claimed there was Japanese privilege they'd laugh at you and ignore you. There is no such thing as white privilege. It's all about the country's largest demographic having the power. In Japan the asians set the culture and have the power, in Zimbabwe the blacks set the culture and have the power, in Mexico the hispanics set the culture and have the power. You can move where you are instantly the majority. No one holds people back. Don't judge people by their words, judge them by their actions. If Indians claim it's that bad living here but don't want to move then you know it's not that bad. What happened to them was a shame but is not unique at all in history. They were simply a people who got taken over by a technologically more advanced and powerful people. Such was life back then. If it wasn't Europeans it would have been another group to take the land over. Back in those days it was very darwin-esque. Redskins just is not offensive. I'm Italian and if they named a team the New York Olive Skins I wouldn't care. We have to stop getting political based on emotion and be logical. Logically there is no argument that the name is offensive. It's never used in common language except when referring to the football team and fans love the team. If anything you could argue there is Indian privilege in that their culture gets glamorized in sports teams i.e. Braves, FSU, Redskins, etc. while there are no white equivalents except maybe the Fighting Irish. I would be honored if my heritage was the mascot of a team. I know lots of Irish-Americans who love ND just because they are the Fighting Irish. The same is definitely true for FSU, the Braves, and Redskins. So I just don't buy it that a majority of Indians are honestly outraged.

Back to Briscoe, turns out that girl in the picture is his sister not girlfriend…awkward lol. I don't know if it's a good sign that he has been taking longer with his recruitment and not jumping to UConn, UK, or Mizzou….or if that's a bad thing that no rumors have come out that he's leaning towards SJ.

No rant, I just think it is an interesting topic to consider. I love me some political/social debate so I decided to jump in.

Since we are analyzing associated others wardrobe choices, I feel like St. John's gear is better than Mizzou or what have you. Or it might just be cold outside and the thing is warm

[abplar06]

Back on topic Jerry Meyer switched his crystal ball prediction for Briscoe to St Johns it seems like the visit went well