Butler head coach Brandon Miller Taking Leave of Absence

[PhillyPirate]

Butler is the program in most need of a talent upgrade. from the sounds of things- those 2 guys aren't that. That's where it's a killer.

I think ranking recruits and classes is fairly useless, but this site has Butler's two recruits ahead of Xavier, St. John's, and Seton Hall and pretty much tied with DePaul. So if you thing Butler's class ain't it, then the Big East is in trouble.

Just sayin'.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings?Conference=Big-East[/quote

Xavier had a top 15 class last year and brought in 6 recruits. 2015 they have zero right now. I guess technically you are right, soooo congratulations on being tied with DePaul

Same with SHU. 6 guys in 2014 plus a redshirt freshamn making 7 newcomers this year. No suprise SHU or X has no recurits yet, hell SHU might not even get any this year.

[HoosierPal]

Xavier had a top 15 class last year and brought in 6 recruits. 2015 they have zero right now. I guess technically you are right, soooo congratulations on being tied with DePaul

My post was in response to the criticism from Stever and XUDash who stated that the 2015 Butler recruits were below standard. If you criticize Butler's 2015 recruiting efforts, you need to include those in the same boat.

Butler has a McDonald's All American sitting out this year. 2014 results have nothing to do with my comment on 2015 recruiting.

[Xudash]

Xavier had a top 15 class last year and brought in 6 recruits. 2015 they have zero right now. I guess technically you are right, soooo congratulations on being tied with DePaul

My post was in response to the criticism from Stever and XUDash who stated that the 2015 Butler recruits were below standard. If you criticize Butler's 2015 recruiting efforts, you need to include those in the same boat.

Butler has a McDonald's All American sitting out this year. 2014 results have nothing to do with my comment on 2015 recruiting.

Find anywhere where I used the phrase "below standard." I generally questioned the notion of the one recruit you mentioned being all that "prized."

Fix your reading comprehension skills, consider being less defensive and try accepting the fact that Butler, for whatever its reasons, isn't tracking all that well right now when it comes to its recruiting performance.

[stever20]

[quote="xavier1994]
Xavier had a top 15 class last year and brought in 6 recruits. 2015 they have zero right now. I guess technically you are right, soooo congratulations on being tied with DePaul[/quote]

My post was in response to the criticism from Stever and XUDash who stated that the 2015 Butler recruits were below standard. If you criticize Butler's 2015 recruiting efforts, you need to include those in the same boat.

Butler has a McDonald's All American sitting out this year. 2014 has nothing to do with my comment on 2015 recruiting.[/quote][/quote]

They aren't recruits that are going to change the program going forward. That's the thing- Butler needs top 100 type recruits. These 2 are barely top 200 recruits. Definitely not program-changers. Butler needs a recruiting class similar to what Marquette has.

Also- the McDonald's All American you are talking about is a transfer from NC State where he averaged 4 ppg. He's also there for only 2 more years.

[Irishdawg]

They aren't recruits that are going to change the program going forward. That's the thing- Butler needs top 100 type recruits. These 2 are barely top 200 recruits. Definitely not program-changers. Butler needs a recruiting class similar to what Marquette has.

Also- the McDonald's All American you are talking about is a transfer from NC State where he averaged 4 ppg. He's also there for only 2 more years.

No one outside of Marquette, Georgetown and Villanova right now can even dream of a class like that. Marquette's 2015 class is the greatest class any school has landed since the formation of the league. Butler will NEVER land a class like that, and I'm a Butler fan. I'm not arguing that they need to get better rated talent coming out of high school (they do), but let's at least put something out there that's realistic.

To your second point, Tyler Lewis is also a pass first point guard on a team with TJ Warren that no one else averaged more than 10.5 ppg because Warren took nearly 40% of the team's shots while he was on the floor. He also owns the ACC record for Assist to Turnover ratio and was 5th in the nation in that category last year. That's not to say he doesn't have shortcomings, but he can play in this league. Xavier can attest to that.

[HoosierPal]

[quote="stever20
They aren't recruits that are going to change the program going forward. That's the thing- Butler needs top 100 type recruits. These 2 are barely top 200 recruits. Definitely not program-changers. Butler needs a recruiting class similar to what Marquette has.

Also- the McDonald's All American you are talking about is a transfer from NC State where he averaged 4 ppg. He's also there for only 2 more years.[/quote]

Well there you go trashing Butler's recruits again. You obviously didn't see Davis play. He is a true point guard, one that torched VA Tech with 11 Assists, 6 against NC, 8 against Xavier, and 7 against Florida State and Wake, just to name a few games. He will do just fine in the Big East, thank you.

How many McD All-Americans stay for 4 years? Don't understand your last point.

[Chalmers0]

Tyler Lewis is a solid player but to make claims of him being a great get simply because he was a McDonalds All American is a bit too far. He is a good passer but he is small, can't shoot it well and struggles to defend. He had an EFG% last year of under 40%. That's not good. Instead of using Semaj's length to frustrate Lewis, he played off of him (since we didn't respect his shot) which just gave Lewis more passing lanes. I'm REALLY interested to see if Mack defends him differently next year when Lewis can play.

I'm not gonna say Butler needs to be getting 5 Star recruits, because I don't think that's even realistic at this point. They do, however, need to do much better than just fringe top-200 kids.

[HoosierPal]

OK, I get it. This has turned into a dump on Butler's recruits thread. I will instruct the Butler staff to run all potential scholarship offers by this board before they are given out, because this board obviously knows more about these players than the staff. With exact science resources such as the 24/7 and Rivals listings, why does anyone bother with visiting and talking to recruits. The school with the #1 recruiting class ALWAYS wins the NCAA tourney. Geezzzz.

[stever20]

OK, I get it. This has turned into a dump on Butler's recruits thread. I will instruct the Butler staff to run all potential scholarship offers by this board before they are given out, because this board obviously knows more about these players than the staff. With exact science resources such as the 24/7 and Rivals listings, why does anyone bother with visiting and talking to recruits. The school with the #1 recruiting class ALWAYS wins the NCAA tourney. Geezzzz.

I'm sorry- but Butler does need to upgrade their talent level. You can act like the recruits coming in are program changers- but they wouldn't be even considered by other top Big East schools- with the exception of a transfer. There generally is a difference between a kid recruited #4 in the nation and a kid ranked #200 in the nation. I coach girls basketball and a few years ago my team played the #35 girl in the country. She had moves that I had never seen a girl make before. There is that big of a difference...

You can act like the 24/7 and Rivals don't mean anything- but they are far more accurate than not.

It just amazes me how especially with Butler- there is so much of that mid-major mentality. Haven't seen it anywhere near as much here with Creighton or Xavier- but Butler- it's like total mid-major. At least some of the fans.

[chicagojayfan]

OK, I get it. This has turned into a dump on Butler's recruits thread. I will instruct the Butler staff to run all potential scholarship offers by this board before they are given out, because this board obviously knows more about these players than the staff. With exact science resources such as the 24/7 and Rivals listings, why does anyone bother with visiting and talking to recruits. The school with the #1 recruiting class ALWAYS wins the NCAA tourney. Geezzzz.

I'm sorry- but Butler does need to upgrade their talent level. You can act like the recruits coming in are program changers- but they wouldn't be even considered by other top Big East schools- with the exception of a transfer. There generally is a difference between a kid recruited #4 in the nation and a kid ranked #200 in the nation. I coach girls basketball and a few years ago my team played the #35 girl in the country. She had moves that I had never seen a girl make before. There is that big of a difference...

You can act like the 24/7 and Rivals don't mean anything- but they are far more accurate than not.

It just amazes me how especially with Butler- there is so much of that mid-major mentality. Haven't seen it anywhere near as much here with Creighton or Xavier- but Butler- it's like total mid-major. At least some of the fans.

Far be it from me to defend Butler, but in the past 5 years they've gone to two national title games (2010 and 2011). Leading up to those years they had the following recruiting classes:

2007: 1-4 star, 1-3 star, 2 2-stars, highest ranked #91
2008: 3-3 stars, 1-2 star, no nationally ranked players
2009: 1-3 star, no nationally ranked players
2010: 2-3 stars, 1-0 star, #118 and #124 ranked
2011: 3-3 stars, #129 ranked nationally

Now, I would guess that there isn't a team in the new Big East from the east coast that had that low of ranked classes over that time period.. yet, there isn't a legacy Big East team that can claim that level of accomplishment. Something the people on the east coast don't realize is that not everyone gets the same level of attention as the kid from Philly or NY, there are tons of kids out in the midwest who aren't found until it's too late.. Sure, some get noticed, but there's still a big pool of talent that people don't realize until they hit the court in D1 -- Indiana in particular has a ton of skilled players who are perfect for Butler's system.

In any case, once you get outside of the top 25, there's a lot of variance from 25 through 150.. and maybe even through 250. It all depends on the system, the kid, the work ethic and how much more they can develop.

Their biggest problem has been the coaching change. Is Miller the right guy to lead that team? Maybe, but he's had a lot of bad luck including his illness and at this point we don't know if he's the right guy. Certainly the illness throws another level of doubt over the program, but to me the idea that he's not recruiting like the rest of the Big East isn't a valid compliant given the way they've run that program.