My Private/Parochial Conference Wish

[Edrick]

I don't know why you'd think there'd be expansion (even expanding to 10 years). All evidence is to the contrary and there aren't prospects that would raise the league's profile anyway.

It's staying at 10...probably until many of us are grey.

[butlerguy03]

I feel like my original thread was hijacked to bring up old ideas. I have realized and WANT the Big East to stay at 10.

[marquette]

I feel like my original thread was hijacked to bring up old ideas. I have realized and WANT the Big East to stay at 10.

Definitely some grave digging going on here. There are plenty of expansion threads more recent. The topic just won't die.

@Edrick, the expansion talk will probably continue for a while even if no other school officials comment on it. It's also the off-season, so there isn't too much else to talk about. All that said, if the Big 12 ever gets back to 12 or the P5 move to 4X16, I expect the Big East to expand within a year. The great season the Big 12 had aside, it is difficult to see how 10 small private schools can compete with the much larger conferences/schools for students, tv dollars, NCAA bids, and other athletics-related revenues without expansion.

@GoldenWarrior, I agree on SLU and UD if the decision were to be made today. SLU makes geographic and institutional sense, and has been heavily investing in sports recently. UD partially due to the E8 run and partially due to the fact that UD and SLU are the only two with arenas that seat more than 10,000. Let's not forget that Siena was in the conversation at one point solely based on making the NCAA tourney 3 years in a row (2008-2010) and the fact that they had an arena that seats 15,000+.

All of that said, I wouldn't be too surprised if it takes 5 years or more for expansion to occur. I am wondering if we aren't waiting to see who is left behind in the P5 realignment before making a decision. Honestly, though, once we go to 12 I don't see any reason 14 or 16 is out of the question. Maybe with a lot of luck in 10 years we could see a Big East with our 10 plus SLU, UD, and 2-4 large eastern public schools. I wouldn't be able to speculate on which schools, but somebody gets left out of the P5/4 if realignment continues.

[TheHall]

Definitely some grave digging going on here. There are plenty of expansion threads more recent. The topic just won't die.

But then you went all....

[marquette]

Definitely some grave digging going on here. There are plenty of expansion threads more recent. The topic just won't die.

But then you went all....

I admit to the hypocrisy. I just can't quit.

[DudeAnon]

Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't expand? I can see only motivating purposes to do so.

Positives
Fox
1. More markets
2. More games for FS1 and FS2

BE
1. More markets
2. Higher chance for NCAA bids (last year middle was too large imo)
3. TV Revenue unaffected (I believe Fox would increase money per school)

Negatives
Fox
1. Have to pay more money

Fox and BE
1. Diluted product?

Am I missing anything?

[Edrick]

18-game home/home double-round robin is one of the primary reasons its staying at 10.

That, and there are no candidates.

[hoyahooligan]

Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't expand? I can see only motivating purposes to do so.

Positives
Fox
1. More markets
2. More games for FS1 and FS2

BE
1. More markets
2. Higher chance for NCAA bids (last year middle was too large imo)
3. TV Revenue unaffected (I believe Fox would increase money per school)

Negatives
Fox
1. Have to pay more money

Fox and BE
1. Diluted product?

Am I missing anything?

Negatives diluting the product, new additions likely do not deliver their markets, associates us with mid majors unless we're taking programs that were in major conferences, No guarantee fox increases what it's paying to keep revenue unaffected, more games for fox, but likely more bad games that get pushed to FS2.

Basically the major problem with expanding is there are no good candidates. if there were then it would be a no brainer. But the candidates to expand do not exist. Wait until more moves from the other conferences. If the AAC gets raided we should pick up some of their best that get left behind. I don't care about the whole we all need to be small private schools. I think that schools that are basketball first will fit fine even if they have football. I'd rather grab UConn, or Memphis if they get left behind again than Dayton or St. Louis.

[aughnanure]

Some problems with this.I really don't know how you can give Dayton and Richmond anything other than a 5 for Criterion 1. I mean, sure they have FBS, but in no way do they have ambition nore the ability to become a D-1 football program. The only school that could actually make it work, and that there has been sooooome evidence of, is VCU (public).

Criterion 2 is clearly subjective, and you admit that. But I still hate trying to quantify "commitment" through "success". It is well known Dayton has been quite committed to basketball for decades, but that hasn't been reflected in success. So , to me, this is a false metric and essentially a copy of Criterion 5. A decade ago we'd all be talking about Southern Illinois.

Xavier was in the A-10 for almost 20 years. In the A-10 during that time were URI, UMass, Charlotte, Virginia Tech and semi-public Temple. Although public institutions, their membership in that basketball-driven league was never an issue. Why should being public be a disqualifying factor for membership in the Big East? Even the Big East has some history of having public members. Their mistake was turning a highly successful League that was built on quality basketball into a mishmash of basketball and football schools where football eventually spoiled everything.

Therefore, the ticket to success for the Big East when expansion is being seriously considered is to concentrate on admitting schools that have:
1) absolutely no ambition to build a top 70-type D-1 football program
2) are committed to elevating their basketball program to the highest level possible
3) have a media market that neither overlaps nor duplicates the media market of a current member
4) occupy a metropolitan area conducive to easy travel and big-city amenities
5) already have a recent history of basketball excellence on the floor
6) already have a recent history of basketball excellence in the stands.

Since Notre Dame has seemingly found its niche, let's not even consider the Irish. The only thing that could affect that niche would be if ND stands fast in its Football independence and subsequently is left out of the 4 x 16 plan so often conjectured recently. (On the other hand, if that were to happen, ND would likely be welcomed to the Big East with open arms!)

If air travel has sufficiently shrunk the U.S such that geography is no longer a factor in the decision, then Gonzaga is the natural first choice. However, since many people feel that the negatives of a Washington State-based member of the big East far outweigh the positives, let us for the time being forget the Zags.

That would seem to leave the following candidates, each of which are lacking somewhat in one or more of the 6 criteria mentioned above:
a) Richmond b) Saint Louis c) Dayton 4) VCU 5) Wichita State

Here's how I would rank those candidates for each criterion (above): (1 = lowest to 5 = highest)
Richmond: 1) 1 2) 1 3) 5 4) 3 5) 1 6) 1 Total = 12 points
St. Louis: 1) 5 2) 2 3) 5 4) 5 5) 3 6) 3 Total = 23 points
Dayton: 1) 2 2) 3 3) 3 4) 2 5) 2 6) 5 Total = 17 points
VCU: 1) 5 2) 5 3) 5 4) 3 5) 5 6) 2 Total = 25 points
Wichita: 1) 5 2) 4 3) 4 4) 1 5) 4 6) 4 Total = 22 points

My Ranking Rationales:
Criterion 1: UD and Richmond both have FB teams at the Division 1 FCS level but I gave UD an extra point since the Flyers' League (Pioneer) isn't as close to FBS standards from top to bottom as Richmond's league, the Colonial. That, plus their better stadium size cause them to be a greater threat to go FBS. The other three either have no football or only club football.
Criterion 2: I based this totally on my perception of how they market their program, discard and select coaches, and achieve actual success.
Criterion 3: Only UD would have a media market that overlaps a current member of the Big East. But since Dayton does not duplicate that market, I gave UD 3 points instead of just one. I gave Wichita only 4 points since it would occupy the smallest media market of the four that don't share one.
Criterion 4: Was determined by using Wikipedia.
Criterion 5: I wanted to rank UD higher because of this year's showing in the NCAA Tourney, but the Flyers simply have been nothing better than mediocre more often than not in the A-10's final standings. SLU has been more consistently better in that regard over the recent past. VCU and Wichita were "no-brainers" for top points in this category.
Criterion 6: I took this ranking from the schools' own listed home attendance figures. UD is consistently on top here with Wichita a strong second. SLU has stepped it up recently. VCU probably deserves at least one additional point for having to sell SRO tickets for every home game. The Rams might want to consider enlarging their home arena if they hope to get into the Big East. That, or trade arenas with the less attractive Richmond Spiders.

Not surprisingly, VCU and SLU would be my two choices for entry into an expanded Big East for all those reasons. I'm particularly pleased that WSU just missed the mark because the Shockers geography would have hurt the balance between East and Midwest if Divisions were preferred with expansion.

[FormulaX]

Can someone explain to me why they wouldn't expand? I can see only motivating purposes to do so.

Positives
Fox
1. More markets
2. More games for FS1 and FS2

BE
1. More markets
2. Higher chance for NCAA bids (last year middle was too large imo)
3. TV Revenue unaffected (I believe Fox would increase money per school)

Negatives
Fox
1. Have to pay more money

Fox and BE
1. Diluted product?

Am I missing anything?

Negatives diluting the product, new additions likely do not deliver their markets, associates us with mid majors unless we're taking programs that were in major conferences, No guarantee fox increases what it's paying to keep revenue unaffected, more games for fox, but likely more bad games that get pushed to FS2.

Basically the major problem with expanding is there are no good candidates. if there were then it would be a no brainer. But the candidates to expand do not exist. Wait until more moves from the other conferences. If the AAC gets raided we should pick up some of their best that get left behind. I don't care about the whole we all need to be small private schools. I think that schools that are basketball first will fit fine even if they have football. I'd rather grab UConn, or Memphis if they get left behind again than Dayton or St. Louis.

+1