4 x 16

[HoosierPal]

The split is coming, later or sooner, so I say let's get it done and move on down the line. I don't see any "raiding", rather I see the conferences reaching a 'mutually agreeable' set up of who plays in what conference. That won't be easily done, with all of the various agendas, but in the end, money rules and everyone in the P5 gets a bigger slice. So they will figure it out as amicably as possible. Let's not be talking/worrying about this for the next two to five years. Even if the NCAA makes moves to accommodate these guys, it ultimately won't be enough. Make the split sooner than later and let's move on.

And don't believe Slive for one minute that the NCAA Hoops tourney is off limits. Here is what he was quoted as saying this past weekend at a meeting in St. Louis.

Slive maintains that the ultimate threat — the Power 5 conferences bolting from the NCAA basketball tournament — won’t happen. Unless ...

“But it would be an alternate to creating autonomy in certain areas,” he warned.

[Xudash]

Bill,

I was being kind with my remark about ending up with a "curious footprint" for the 4th conference. I agree with you that it's nuts for that 4th conference should they find a way to pursue this format.

Before I write anything else, I probably need to reiterate the fact that I am not in favor of the 4 x 16 model, UNLESS it can be done in such a way that it results in strengthening the Big East while having no effect on the NCAA Basketball Tournament. I recognize that is a little selfish on my part, but I doubt any of these football schools or fans of these football schools are losing sleep at night, worrying about the Big East as it moves into the future.

Otherwise, the 4 x 16 thing has to be an all or nothing proposition within the club. How would they go about voting it up or down? One vote for each school? It could never make it to the table unless there is a reason for it making it to the table. That reason most likely would be a backroom deal between the PAC and Texas, with a few more Big XII schools along for the ride, as you even described, to seal the deal. Such a scenario could lead to the B1G, SEC and PAC voting it up, which would provide the majority votes needed to pursue its implementation. At that point, those other schools have no choice: they have to find a way to congeal at that point, and they would find a way due to the money involved. We haven't seen a land grab like this since Manhattan Island ended up with a $24 valuation on it.

Could there be lawsuits and Congressional intervention? I hope so, but I wonder how much of all this legal and legislative firepower hold degrees from the BCS schools.

Your attendance numbers are revealing. Stadium capacity numbers would add more clarity to which of these schools may or may not be deserving. I'm not asking you to do that list. If I'm not mistaken, BC, UC and UCONN play in 40k (tops) capacity stadiums. I'm not sure about Wake and Duke. Some of these other schools use pro facilities (e.g. PITT).

[GumbyDamnit!]

Dash,

Other than football, I don't see why these schools would want to join together in a common effort.

Bill just re-read this one sentence you put out there and ask yourself why all of this jockeying and maneuvering among these schools started in the first place. Why did WV bolt for the Big XII? Why did Syracuse and Pitt leave for the ACC? Why has Texas and ND been courted by everyone for so long? Why did Missou leave its rivalry with Kansas, etc.? They are all doing whatever it takes to get what they believe will be the biggest slice of the pie. It's all about the almighty football $ in college sports nowadays. If you don't think that every conference affiliation decision doesn't come down to $ first, second and third, then you are fooling yourself. If USC were courted today by the SEC and given a huge payout to join them, I would expect to see the Trojans in Tuscaloosa by 2016. That's just the way it is these days.

And before we start throwing stones at other glass houses ask yourself how a school like SJU and a school like Creighton became conference mates? We bit on the lure of Fox Sports $ and we did so with the intention of building an asset (the BE Conference) that would maximize a profit for each school. It's not rocket science. Nova makes $ on hoops (through TV, tourney credits and alumni donations when the team does well). They selfishly entered into the formation of a conference that geographically doesn't make a lot of sense, but was best for its long-term success regardless of geography. I don't think they considered the impact it would have on women's softball. The FB schools will certainly do the same and the jockeying and money grab will continue. Don't expect many decisions to involve anything other than $. Period.

[SJHooper]

Whoever said DePaul will become a force...uhh...nah. DePaul is DePaul. Anything they touch will turn into crap just like the Mets. Some teams just have losing cultures they can never escape. They have good players and still suck every year. If by some miracle they became good again it would be amazing for the conference and the Chicago market.

Now back to the 4 team super league...there are only a few spots open to jump on the major football bandwagon. There will be some very nice schools left over who suck in football but have good and major hoops programs i.e. UConn, Cincy, Virginia, Memphis, Cuse, etc. etc. What will the leftovers possibly do? There won't be enough of them to form their own conference. The ones who get leftover will have to either shelve football totally for good and invest everything into hoops, or store football in the MAC or some other conference. This is actually probably good news for us. We are set...we have 10 basketball schools who all want to be in a basketball first conference. We have good schools here. We can easily add more major teams, some of whom may ultimately come back to us i.e. Cuse, UConn, Cincy, etc.

[Bill Marsh]

Dash,

Other than football, I don't see why these schools would want to join together in a common effort.

Bill just re-read this one sentence you put out there and ask yourself why all of this jockeying and maneuvering among these schools started in the first place. Why did WV bolt for the Big XII? Why did Syracuse and Pitt leave for the ACC? Why has Texas and ND been courted by everyone for so long? Why did Missou leave its rivalry with Kansas, etc.? They are all doing whatever it takes to get what they believe will be the biggest slice of the pie. It's all about the almighty football $ in college sports nowadays. If you don't think that every conference affiliation decision doesn't come down to $ first, second and third, then you are fooling yourself. If USC were courted today by the SEC and given a huge payout to join them, I would expect to see the Trojans in Tuscaloosa by 2016. That's just the way it is these days.

And before we start throwing stones at other glass houses ask yourself how a school like SJU and a school like Creighton became conference mates? We bit on the lure of Fox Sports $ and we did so with the intention of building an asset (the BE Conference) that would maximize a profit for each school. It's not rocket science. Nova makes $ on hoops (through TV, tourney credits and alumni donations when the team does well). They selfishly entered into the formation of a conference that geographically doesn't make a lot of sense, but was best for its long-term success regardless of geography. I don't think they considered the impact it would have on women's softball. The FB schools will certainly do the same and the jockeying and money grab will continue. Don't expect many decisions to involve anything other than $. Period.

Gumby, thanks for your insights.

My sentence was written hurriedly. I should have said, "Except for football playoffs . . ."

I can't see how this grouping makes sense even for regular season football. I can't see how it makes sense for gaining markets to maximize TV revenue. I don't see how these institutions fit together well enough in any way to have a common vision. We talk here a lot about "institutional fit" when it comes to Big East expansion. Well, the leftover schools are really lacking in any kind of commonality. Were it not be for the 4x16 idea, they would never choose each other - even for football.

[Bill Marsh]

Bill,

I was being kind with my remark about ending up with a "curious footprint" for the 4th conference. I agree with you that it's nuts for that 4th conference should they find a way to pursue this format.

Before I write anything else, I probably need to reiterate the fact that I am not in favor of the 4 x 16 model, UNLESS it can be done in such a way that it results in strengthening the Big East while having no effect on the NCAA Basketball Tournament. I recognize that is a little selfish on my part, but I doubt any of these football schools or fans of these football schools are losing sleep at night, worrying about the Big East as it moves into the future.

Otherwise, the 4 x 16 thing has to be an all or nothing proposition within the club. How would they go about voting it up or down? One vote for each school? It could never make it to the table unless there is a reason for it making it to the table. That reason most likely would be a backroom deal between the PAC and Texas, with a few more Big XII schools along for the ride, as you even described, to seal the deal. Such a scenario could lead to the B1G, SEC and PAC voting it up, which would provide the majority votes needed to pursue its implementation. At that point, those other schools have no choice: they have to find a way to congeal at that point, and they would find a way due to the money involved. We haven't seen a land grab like this since Manhattan Island ended up with a $24 valuation on it.

Could there be lawsuits and Congressional intervention? I hope so, but I wonder how much of all this legal and legislative firepower hold degrees from the BCS schools.

Your attendance numbers are revealing. Stadium capacity numbers would add more clarity to which of these schools may or may not be deserving. I'm not asking you to do that list. If I'm not mistaken, BC, UC and UCONN play in 40k (tops) capacity stadiums. I'm not sure about Wake and Duke. Some of these other schools use pro facilities (e.g. PITT).

Dash, I have updated my post on football attendance to include stadium capacities. Thanks for the suggestion.

[SCS]

Everyone who thinks the BigXII is going to dissolve any time soon is wrong. The BigXII conference just distributed about 2 million more to each school compared to the SEC and ACC.

[stever20]

Everyone who thinks the BigXII is going to dissolve any time soon is wrong. The BigXII conference just distributed about 2 million more to each school compared to the SEC and ACC.

it's kind of apples to oranges there though, because WVU and TCU aren't getting full shares yet. If they did, it would have been about 200k more. And, that's before especially the SEC starts seeing the impact $$$ wise of their expansion.....

[FormulaX]

Is 4 x 18 just out of the question? That would add 8 more schools and decrease disgruntled fans by millions. As for me? Count me out, if this does happen. My interest in CFB will be done. It will be a slippery slope when these programs start governing themselves. Just when they got something right and started going to a true playoff.

[Xudash]

Bill,

I was being kind with my remark about ending up with a "curious footprint" for the 4th conference. I agree with you that it's nuts for that 4th conference should they find a way to pursue this format.

Before I write anything else, I probably need to reiterate the fact that I am not in favor of the 4 x 16 model, UNLESS it can be done in such a way that it results in strengthening the Big East while having no effect on the NCAA Basketball Tournament. I recognize that is a little selfish on my part, but I doubt any of these football schools or fans of these football schools are losing sleep at night, worrying about the Big East as it moves into the future.

Otherwise, the 4 x 16 thing has to be an all or nothing proposition within the club. How would they go about voting it up or down? One vote for each school? It could never make it to the table unless there is a reason for it making it to the table. That reason most likely would be a backroom deal between the PAC and Texas, with a few more Big XII schools along for the ride, as you even described, to seal the deal. Such a scenario could lead to the B1G, SEC and PAC voting it up, which would provide the majority votes needed to pursue its implementation. At that point, those other schools have no choice: they have to find a way to congeal at that point, and they would find a way due to the money involved. We haven't seen a land grab like this since Manhattan Island ended up with a $24 valuation on it.

Could there be lawsuits and Congressional intervention? I hope so, but I wonder how much of all this legal and legislative firepower hold degrees from the BCS schools.

Your attendance numbers are revealing. Stadium capacity numbers would add more clarity to which of these schools may or may not be deserving. I'm not asking you to do that list. If I'm not mistaken, BC, UC and UCONN play in 40k (tops) capacity stadiums. I'm not sure about Wake and Duke. Some of these other schools use pro facilities (e.g. PITT).

Dash, I have updated my post on football attendance to include stadium capacities. Thanks for the suggestion.

Bill,

Thanks for including that data.

Okay, well then, I wonder which of these programs really get exposed, though nothing will probably be done about it under any scenario as far as the existing club members is concerned:

Presently In The Club:
38,300 (49,262) - Syracuse
37,900 (50,071) - Kansas
33,000 (44,500) - Boston College
28,375 (31,500) - Wake Forest
26,100 (33,941) - Duke

Presently Not In The Club:
36,900 (41,031) - Fresno State
34,400 (36,387) - Boise State
31,800 (35,000/approx 40,000 in 2015) - Cincinnati
30,900 (40,000) - UConn
28,500 (62,380) - Memphis
28,414 (51,500) - UTEP

I think I would be pissed if I'm a resident of CT and not a UCONN alumnus. And I'm still pondering why UC would move forward with an $80 million renovation of Nippert that will result in 40k of capacity.