Commissioner "Val"

[NJRedman]

I mentioned this a page or 2 ago, but in December 2012, the "C-7" tossed around the idea of a "national conference". I don't remember the details of why the idea went away. Was it considered impractical...? Or was it just put on hold...? Does anyone remember?

I only see that happening if 5 or 6 other teams besides Gonzaga get their act together. Not just winning games but also improving facilities and growing their fan bases. This is completely unrealistic at this time, I can't stress that enough.

18 team league, 3 geographic regions, 1 conference.

East:
SJU
GTown
Nova
Seton Hall
Providence
VCU

Mid-West:
Butler
X
Marquette
DePaul
Creighton
Saint Louis

West:
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
USF
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland

[BEwannabe]

Rutgers to Minnesota's campus is roughly 1,300 miles (that's about the total expanse of the B1G). The closest BE member to Gonzaga, is Creighton - at roughly 1,300 miles. The B1G expanded east, only because NYC commands so many eyeballs (just like the ACC is trying to expand its media exposure). I know your point was to showcase that distance doesn't matter to other conferences, but many people seem to discount how far the West Coast and East Coast are separated. There is a reason no other conference stretches, literally, from coast to coast.

NYC is closer to Omaha than Omaha is to Spokane.

In the 90's and early 2000's I served on a national board and 1 of my colleagues lived in Seattle. His travel from the Pacific NW vs Midwest was crazy whether we were going to Tampa, Dallas, London, even Las Vegas, my flight to Vegas from the midwest is only 30-40 minutes longer than his from Seattle. Many people have no clue how big western USA is, especially the Pacific NW.

1 team knows for sure and that's the Zags, their non Olympic sports would go in the tank and possibly their basketball program as well with that kind of travel absent a western division of the Big East and then the question would be, why?

[BEwannabe]

Interesting points made by both Redmen & Hall. My take is Gonzaga would not have an interest in this basketball centric conference unless there is a significant west coast division. I just don't see a compelling reason for the Zags to have interest so I can't even begin to address the pros/cons of an add like Gonzaga but like I said, good points on both sides of the debate.

But to Bill Marsh is you like the Zags OOC then you must love the Dayton Flyers, I don't have the time to put the list together but over this same time frame the Flyers have wins against UNC, Louisville (2), Georgia tech, Ohio State, Syracuse , Stanford, Pittsburgh, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Alabama, Auburn, Ol Miss, Illinois, Murray St., Akron ( LOL ) , Big east Creighton, Hall, Marquette. Not including conference wins like SLU, X, at Temple, UMASS, UD also had a win versus Zags last year.

And yet the Flyers have pretty much languished in mediocrity as a member of the A-10 (i.e. seldom contending for a regular season of Tourney title and finishing in the middle of the pack more often than not).

making the Flyers, drum roll, the perfect conference member. Build a great ooc resume and then annually flop. I don't think this is in the Flyers future and many of the Flyer Faithful are embracing A10 with its current status. It's the if and when part worrisome to Flyer fans.

[billyjack]

I mentioned this a page or 2 ago, but in December 2012, the "C-7" tossed around the idea of a "national conference". I don't remember the details of why the idea went away. Was it considered impractical...? Or was it just put on hold...? Does anyone remember?

BJ,
Are you certain that the idea wasn't partially implemented already with the possibility of expanding more nationally in the future?

Right, the way the 10 of us are located keeps the door still open to expand westward at some point. March 2013 could have been a Phase 1.

[billyjack]

I mentioned this a page or 2 ago, but in December 2012, the "C-7" tossed around the idea of a "national conference". I don't remember the details of why the idea went away. Was it considered impractical...? Or was it just put on hold...? Does anyone remember?

I only see that happening if 5 or 6 other teams besides Gonzaga get their act together. Not just winning games but also improving facilities and growing their fan bases. This is completely unrealistic at this time, I can't stress that enough.

18 team league, 3 geographic regions, 1 conference.

East:
SJU
GTown
Nova
Seton Hall
Providence
VCU

Mid-West:
Butler
X
Marquette
DePaul
Creighton
Saint Louis

West:
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
USF
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland

I think you're right that in adding Gonzaga it would probably have to be via a big expansion move to 16 or 18 or 20.
16 would allow for 1 game vs the other 15 schools, plus an additional game vs 3 others.
So 4 western teams (west would do the round robin) and 12 non-westerns would work, but like you said, all but Gonzaga have to pick up their game and commitment to winning. Getting way ahead of ourselves, but the BET brackets should probably place the 4 westerns in 1 mini bracket... guaranteeing 1 and only 1 western team in the BET semi's.

Gonzaga, San Francisco, Loyola Marymount, and Denver/BYU/another SF Bay area school.
This would open up great recruiting grounds in California... ton of talented kids an relatively few schools.

Also, put me in the San Francisco Dons' camp if we do have a major western push. Had some great credibility before the early 80's scandal.

[Bill Marsh]

Rutgers to Minnesota's campus is roughly 1,300 miles (that's about the total expanse of the B1G). The closest BE member to Gonzaga, is Creighton - at roughly 1,300 miles. The B1G expanded east, only because NYC commands so many eyeballs (just like the ACC is trying to expand its media exposure). I know your point was to showcase that distance doesn't matter to other conferences, but many people seem to discount how far the West Coast and East Coast are separated. There is a reason no other conference stretches, literally, from coast to coast.

NYC is closer to Omaha than Omaha is to Spokane.

In the 90's and early 2000's I served on a national board and 1 of my colleagues lived in Seattle. His travel from the Pacific NW vs Midwest was crazy whether we were going to Tampa, Dallas, London, even Las Vegas, my flight to Vegas from the midwest is only 30-40 minutes longer than his from Seattle. Many people have no clue how big western USA is, especially the Pacific NW.

1 team knows for sure and that's the Zags, their non Olympic sports would go in the tank and possibly their basketball program as well with that kind of travel absent a western division of the Big East and then the question would be, why?

All good points, and as you point out, the Zags are the one team that knows for sure. I think there are several factors involved:

1. The distances they already travel, as you point out, are much greater than most people here realize.

2. They don't travel commercial. They have their own charter for all their teams, which helps a lot in reducing time lost to needless delays going through airports

3. The why for the Big East should be obvious. They are a national brand and a perfect institutional fit. They would have instant credibility for a national audience. College basketball fans all over the country would tune into a Georgetown - Gonzaga game. Compare this with the problems that the AAC has. As attractive as the top of their conference, no one is interested in UConn vs East Carolina or Cincinnati vs Tulane. Conference members have to be competitive for the games to have appeal beyond the 2 schools involved

4. As far as Gonzaga, the why has to do with gaining increased national credibility that they've worked hard for the past 20 years to elevate on a national level. They are currently held back by their conference which is not competitive beyond the top 2 or 3 teams and by the fact that the other WCC schools just don't have the same level of commitment. Just look at their attendance. It's MAAC level, less than 3000 for almost every member except BYU and several less than 2000. I'm sure that the $5 million in guaranteed TV revenue is also a big factor. Finally is the institutional fit, which I'm sure they value as well.

Most of the travel issues can be dealt with by intelligent scheduling. For the existing schools, it's one trip a year. Any time East Coast schools can combine it with Creighton, it gets both of their longest trips done in one weekend. Or if it's divisions and they only play them alternate years, then they alternate with Creighton.

For Gonzaga, pairing their opponents Thursday-Saturday, Friday-Sunday, or Saturday-Monday cuts their number of road trips in half. Even better would be a 3 or 4 team road trip to the East Coast in January during intercession, which takes care of that part of the conference schedule in one trip. When you compare the Midwest portion of the schedule to the trips they already endure to Southern California and the Bay Area, it's really not that great a difference on a jet flying 500-600 miles per hour. The other thing they can do is to restrict their OOC games to the best distances they can in the West, e.g. Boise, BYU, Utah, Washington, Washington State, etc. Because of the weakness of the WCC, they've needed to play OOC all over the country so far. With the increased Big East SOS in conference, those long road trips would no longer be necessary.

[muskienick]

I mentioned this a page or 2 ago, but in December 2012, the "C-7" tossed around the idea of a "national conference". I don't remember the details of why the idea went away. Was it considered impractical...? Or was it just put on hold...? Does anyone remember?

I only see that happening if 5 or 6 other teams besides Gonzaga get their act together. Not just winning games but also improving facilities and growing their fan bases. This is completely unrealistic at this time, I can't stress that enough.

18 team league, 3 geographic regions, 1 conference.

East:
SJU
GTown
Nova
Seton Hall
Providence
VCU

Mid-West:
Butler
X
Marquette
DePaul
Creighton
Saint Louis

West:
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
USF
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland

NJR,
I am not totally against expansion, but I do have a few comments on your proposed Conference as described above:
a) Our current 10-member Conference seems perfect for at least the time being
b) I feel the above 18-member League is too extreme --- quantity seems to have displaced quality as a motivation for expansion.
c) If the League were go to 18 members (although not necessarily those 18), I'd prefer no geographical (or other Divisions). Play everybody once (9 home/away and 8 away/home) and a selected favorite League rival a second time for an 18-game (9 home; 9 away) Conference season.
d) I'd prefer a 12-, 14-, or 15-member Conference for ease of scheduling and avoidance of watering down the Conference with geographical choices rather than quality choices.

12-Member Big East: (16-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 10 games; Non-Division - 1/2 Home and 1/2 Away = 6 games)
East Division: Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, VCU
West Division: Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier

14-Member Big East: (20-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 12 games; Non-Division - 4 Home and 3 Away + 1 game versus one of the three teams from the other Division played either home or away to make 4H and 4A = 8 games)
East Division:G-Town, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, VCU, Xavier
West Division: Brigham Young, Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Gonzaga, Marquette, Wichita State

15-Member Big East: (18-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 8 games; 1/2 Home and 1/2 Away other 2 Divisions = 10 games)
Red Division: Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova
White Division: Butler, DePaul, Marquette, VCU, Xavier
Blue Division: BYU, Creighton, Gonzaga, Saint Louis, Wichita State

This just proves that this board is rife with speculation and is intended for recreational purposes only!!!

[NJRedman]

I mentioned this a page or 2 ago, but in December 2012, the "C-7" tossed around the idea of a "national conference". I don't remember the details of why the idea went away. Was it considered impractical...? Or was it just put on hold...? Does anyone remember?

I only see that happening if 5 or 6 other teams besides Gonzaga get their act together. Not just winning games but also improving facilities and growing their fan bases. This is completely unrealistic at this time, I can't stress that enough.

18 team league, 3 geographic regions, 1 conference.

East:
SJU
GTown
Nova
Seton Hall
Providence
VCU

Mid-West:
Butler
X
Marquette
DePaul
Creighton
Saint Louis

West:
Gonzaga
St. Mary's
USF
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland

NJR,
I am not totally against expansion, but I do have a few comments on your proposed Conference as described above:
a) Our current 10-member Conference seems perfect for at least the time being
b) I feel the above 18-member League is too extreme --- quantity seems to have displaced quality as a motivation for expansion.
c) If the League were go to 18 members (although not necessarily those 18), I'd prefer no geographical (or other Divisions). Play everybody once (9 home/away and 8 away/home) and a selected favorite League rival a second time for an 18-game (9 home; 9 away) Conference season.
d) I'd prefer a 12-, 14-, or 15-member Conference for ease of scheduling and avoidance of watering down the Conference with geographical choices rather than quality choices.

12-Member Big East: (16-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 10 games; Non-Division - 1/2 Home and 1/2 Away = 6 games)
East Division: Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, VCU
West Division: Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Gonzaga, Marquette, Xavier

14-Member Big East: (20-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 12 games; Non-Division - 4 Home and 3 Away + 1 game versus one of the three teams from the other Division played either home or away to make 4H and 4A = 8 games)
East Division:G-Town, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, VCU, Xavier
West Division: Brigham Young, Butler, Creighton, DePaul, Gonzaga, Marquette, Wichita State

15-Member Big East: (18-game Conference Schedule: H/A in Division = 8 games; 1/2 Home and 1/2 Away other 2 Divisions = 10 games)
Red Division: Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova
White Division: Butler, DePaul, Marquette, VCU, Xavier
Blue Division: BYU, Creighton, Gonzaga, Saint Louis, Wichita State

This just proves that this board is rife with speculation and is intended for recreational purposes only!!!

Thats why I stressed that it was completely unrealistic, but that anything short of a full on westeren expansion we probably won't see the Zags in the league.

[BEwannabe]

News Corp just fired their top dog of their entertainment division and you can be sure the head of the sports division knows all too well if his team doesn't perform then he can kiss his arse goodbye. FS1 future doesn't rest on the back of Big East rather the Big East is a stop gap tool for programming until better programming can be secured. If the Big East brass doesn't know this then they're not very bright, so their job is to build the best conference they can build. Their chances of getting another contract like this 1 is next to nonexistent. The Zags aren't going to hitch their wagon to this train unless a western div is in the mix and Fox isn't going to pay for 6 to 8 more teams at the original per capita rate and I don't anticiapte the C7 sharing any of their windfall. At some point they'll figure this out, 10 teams will never cut it and western division makes no sense - expansion will happen east and central time zones.

[billyjack]

News Corp just fired their top dog of their entertainment division and you can be sure the head of the sports division knows all too well if his team doesn't perform then he can kiss his arse goodbye. FS1 future doesn't rest on the back of Big East rather the Big East is a stop gap tool for programming until better programming can be secured. If the Big East brass doesn't know this then they're not very bright, so their job is to build the best conference they can build. Their chances of getting another contract like this 1 is next to nonexistent. The Zags aren't going to hitch their wagon to this train unless a western div is in the mix and Fox isn't going to pay for 6 to 8 more teams at the original per capita rate and I don't anticiapte the C7 sharing any of their windfall. At some point they'll figure this out, 10 teams will never cut it and western division makes no sense - expansion will happen east and central time zones.

Just my opinion, but I don't agree with the whole body of what you wrote here.