Commissioner "Val"

[DudeAnon]

The fact is there are no perfect candidates just like there are no perfect members right now. Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, where is the NCAA tourney success the past decade? Marquette, Butler, where is the Coach? Xavier, Creighton, trending downwards?

So get the best additions possible, but no candidate will be perfect.

? Georgetown and Nova have both been to the final 4 in the last decade. Nova has an elite 8 and 2 sweet 16s in addition. Georgetown has an additional sweet 16.

Xavier is definitely not trending downwards.

I'd say most of the members are trending up. Only teams that appear to be trending down looking at from 2 years ago to now would be Creighton and Marquette.

Ok, yea, I stand corrected on Nova, GTown. And the Xavier trending downwards was supposed to be relative to the high of 5 Sweet 16s and 2 Elite eights in last 10 years to now 2 years without a NCAA win. Which now that I write it out like that, I realize I am being very "stever20" ish.

The point was that no team is perfect. VCU strong bball but what about are public and what happens when Shaka leaves? etc.

[TheHall]

Ok, yea, I stand corrected on Nova, GTown. And the Xavier trending downwards was supposed to be relative to the high of 5 Sweet 16s and 2 Elite eights in last 10 years to now 2 years without a NCAA win. Which now that I write it out like that, I realize I am being very "stever20" ish.

The point was that no team is perfect. VCU strong bball but what about are public and what happens when Shaka leaves? etc.

Don't do it dude...we got you.

[NJRedman]

I'm sorry to have to explain the obvious to you, but the bus trips to Buffalo are relevant because schools did them. Routinely. Which means that trips to Spokane which take less time are also doable on a college schedule. Yes (sigh) there are time zones. And businessmen who fly all over the country deal with them every week. A trip of that length regardless of the time zones means that you have to leave a day in advance. And you have to have a travel day on the back end as well. That gives you time to adjust to the change in time zones. It's not like we're forging new territory here. In the 21st century, this kind of travel is commonplace.

And the travel is once a year per team. At most. This road trip simply replace the longest one already on your schedule. East Coast teams - even women's teams - are routinely playing games in California and in tournaments in Hawaii and Alaska. But a team can't make one road trip a year to Spokane?

I don't have evidence they'll show up in bad times? And you don't have any evidence they won't. You're the one bringing up the hypothetical "what if". Not me. There's a problem with any school if they go in the toilet. BTW, how's the attendance at St. John's? Not what it used to be, I hear.

Your first instincts are right about agreeing with Steve. The real fact is that Gonzaga has not lacked NCAA tournament success. During their 16 year run, they've been to 5 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8. How many current Big East schools have done that over the past 16 years?

Let me repeat my point about their success again so you can understand it because I never said anything remotely related to your straw man argument that Gonzaga's domination of the WCC shows it to be a tough league. In fact, I agreed with Steve on that point. The point of my comment was Gonzaga's CONSISTENCY. Regardless of how weak the league, no one in the country has had Gonzaga's CONSISTENCY. Regardless of the level of the competition, that says that Gonzaga is a special program. And they haven't gotten to the tournament just on WCC auto ids. They've also gotten their at large, which means that they've been winning games OOC to establish their credentials.

Frankly, the burden is on you to come up with a better candidate for expansion. Who do ya got?

What school was St. John's bussing to in Buffalo? A made up trip isn't based in fact. Also if it's no big deal then why isn't any other major conference rumored to be going coast to coast? Why aren't Pac schools being rumored for B1G expansion? If it's not a big deal why would we be the only ones electing to go that route? The Sun Belt does it but thats purely out of survival. Where are the examples of conferences doing it? Also when did I say I want the conference purely in the northeast? We share the same geographic footprint as the B1G and yes, I think we should keep it that way.

Who do i got? Easy, SLU has a better market, better geographic fit, better cultural fit, has been winning a better league. Dayton, Better attendance, better recent NCAA success (A elite 8 run in the 90's doesn't count, if it did then my johnnies can brag about one), better geographic fit, established rivals, better market.

Frankly I wasn't even thinking of St. John's when I mentioned NY-Buffalo road trips. I know for a fact that way before the MAAC, Manhattan and St. Peter's both had long standing home and home series against Canisius and Niagara. One trip would get them 2 games up there. Same thing when the Buffalo schools came down here in alternate years. But I also know that St. John's has a long history of playing Niagara as well.

Those were just examples of long bus rides that went on all over the country. In the Ivy League, Penn was making an annual trek to Hanover, NH to play Dartmouth. In the Yankee Conference,UConn was busing up to Orono, Maine. Those are just examples in the East. LA schools were busing up to Pullman, Washington and Moscow, Idaho. (U of Idaho was once a member AAWU, forerunner of the now Pac12). Ohio to Iowa, Arizona to Wyoming, Florida to Nashville were all long bus trips back before the interstate highway system and even after.

I agree with you that road trips of this length are a problem, but they're not a problem for the teams that do them once a year. They're a problem for the teams making multiple trips in the same year. West Virginia has already complained about this in the Big XII. In this case, the school making multiple trips is Gonzaga. They say it is not a problem for them. I take them at their word. Their teams are already in planes routinely to go to Southern California and elsewhere in their far flung conference, so I guess they feel that once they're in the air, the extra hour or two, which is all it is, is worth the benefits they would receive.

Footprints are expanding everywhere even if few stretch 2400 miles. The Pacific-12 now stretches east of the Rocky Mountains. The Texas-based Big XII to West Virginia'. The Southeast Conference now includes schools from the old Southwest Conference, the Atlantic Coast has reached into the Ohio Valley and the Great Lakes. The Big Ten now is on the East Coast and the Big east is in Nebraska. Obviously geographically tight-knit conferences are a thing of the past. Jet planes have shrunk distances so what was once inconceivable is now reality.

You ask why anyone else isn't going coast to coast. Well, it's because geographically compact conferences make more sense in many ways IF they can be put together with schools of common interests and similar levels of competition. When the C7 opted to go 90% Catholic and 100% private! they limited the field of candidates. IF they want to be a major player among power basketball conferences, they've limited the field even further. Gonzaga is by far the most successful non-football Catholic basketball program outside the Big East in the past 2 decades. That's why they keep coming up in the discussion. They fit the criteria in every way except geography.

Whatever assets that St Louis and Dayton bring - which are several for each school as you've enumerated - neither has demonstrated the ability to sustain a successful program for a significant length of time. That"s a real problem for a league that aspires to the big time. Once Miller leaves Dayton - as he will - what happens to that recent success? St largeLouis is under the fun right now to show that they can sustain their program in the post-Majerus era.

BTW, St. John's would be bragging about its 1999 Elite 8 if they had continued to be successful just as Duke continues to brag about national championships which we're won more than 20 years ago. When they're part of an ongoing pattern of success, they're still relevant. When the trend has changed directions, then they're ancient history. Ongoing success at Georgetown and Villanova still brings mention of their national championships won in the 1980's because they are the epitome of the ongoing success of great programs. Same for Notre Dame football which hasn't won a title in more than 25 years.

Don't you see that you're proving my point for me? The Zags would have to take on the burden of that travel and look at what that did to WVU who isn't nearly a far from the Big XII as the Zags are from the BE. They could easily falter and struggle dealing with all that travel. That is a legit concern and a realistic possibility.

[Bill Marsh]

I don't know about you, but most of the time I see a commissioner make a statement...it's something bad.

I don't know much about Val Ackerman, but the Presidents of your schools saw something in her.

I have no problems at all with Ackerman but the Presidents judgement can not be fully trusted. Remember these are largely the same people who chose meatball as the former BE commish. Clearly he was anything but a success. I know of no one outside Providence who would give him any credit.

I believe they did well with Val however.

And just what was it that made Meatball such a bad commissioner?

[Bill Marsh]

What school was St. John's bussing to in Buffalo? A made up trip isn't based in fact. Also if it's no big deal then why isn't any other major conference rumored to be going coast to coast? Why aren't Pac schools being rumored for B1G expansion? If it's not a big deal why would we be the only ones electing to go that route? The Sun Belt does it but thats purely out of survival. Where are the examples of conferences doing it? Also when did I say I want the conference purely in the northeast? We share the same geographic footprint as the B1G and yes, I think we should keep it that way.

Who do i got? Easy, SLU has a better market, better geographic fit, better cultural fit, has been winning a better league. Dayton, Better attendance, better recent NCAA success (A elite 8 run in the 90's doesn't count, if it did then my johnnies can brag about one), better geographic fit, established rivals, better market.

Frankly I wasn't even thinking of St. John's when I mentioned NY-Buffalo road trips. I know for a fact that way before the MAAC, Manhattan and St. Peter's both had long standing home and home series against Canisius and Niagara. One trip would get them 2 games up there. Same thing when the Buffalo schools came down here in alternate years. But I also know that St. John's has a long history of playing Niagara as well.

Those were just examples of long bus rides that went on all over the country. In the Ivy League, Penn was making an annual trek to Hanover, NH to play Dartmouth. In the Yankee Conference,UConn was busing up to Orono, Maine. Those are just examples in the East. LA schools were busing up to Pullman, Washington and Moscow, Idaho. (U of Idaho was once a member AAWU, forerunner of the now Pac12). Ohio to Iowa, Arizona to Wyoming, Florida to Nashville were all long bus trips back before the interstate highway system and even after.

I agree with you that road trips of this length are a problem, but they're not a problem for the teams that do them once a year. They're a problem for the teams making multiple trips in the same year. West Virginia has already complained about this in the Big XII. In this case, the school making multiple trips is Gonzaga. They say it is not a problem for them. I take them at their word. Their teams are already in planes routinely to go to Southern California and elsewhere in their far flung conference, so I guess they feel that once they're in the air, the extra hour or two, which is all it is, is worth the benefits they would receive.

Footprints are expanding everywhere even if few stretch 2400 miles. The Pacific-12 now stretches east of the Rocky Mountains. The Texas-based Big XII to West Virginia'. The Southeast Conference now includes schools from the old Southwest Conference, the Atlantic Coast has reached into the Ohio Valley and the Great Lakes. The Big Ten now is on the East Coast and the Big east is in Nebraska. Obviously geographically tight-knit conferences are a thing of the past. Jet planes have shrunk distances so what was once inconceivable is now reality.

You ask why anyone else isn't going coast to coast. Well, it's because geographically compact conferences make more sense in many ways IF they can be put together with schools of common interests and similar levels of competition. When the C7 opted to go 90% Catholic and 100% private! they limited the field of candidates. IF they want to be a major player among power basketball conferences, they've limited the field even further. Gonzaga is by far the most successful non-football Catholic basketball program outside the Big East in the past 2 decades. That's why they keep coming up in the discussion. They fit the criteria in every way except geography.

Whatever assets that St Louis and Dayton bring - which are several for each school as you've enumerated - neither has demonstrated the ability to sustain a successful program for a significant length of time. That"s a real problem for a league that aspires to the big time. Once Miller leaves Dayton - as he will - what happens to that recent success? St largeLouis is under the fun right now to show that they can sustain their program in the post-Majerus era.

BTW, St. John's would be bragging about its 1999 Elite 8 if they had continued to be successful just as Duke continues to brag about national championships which we're won more than 20 years ago. When they're part of an ongoing pattern of success, they're still relevant. When the trend has changed directions, then they're ancient history. Ongoing success at Georgetown and Villanova still brings mention of their national championships won in the 1980's because they are the epitome of the ongoing success of great programs. Same for Notre Dame football which hasn't won a title in more than 25 years.

Don't you see that you're proving my point for me? The Zags would have to take on the burden of that travel and look at what that did to WVU who isn't nearly a far from the Big XII as the Zags are from the BE. They could easily falter and struggle dealing with all that travel. That is a legit concern and a realistic possibility.

Yes, I agree that it's a legitimate concern for Gonzaga, but that doesn't explain why it's such a big concern for a St. John's fan or for the rest of the league.

As for the Zags, they're willing to do it because they already have to fly everywhere they go and therefore they have their own charter for all their teams because they have long distances currently. They also have to add extra trips right now to the Midwest, the South, and the East to improve their strength of schedule, something which would not be an issue with a Big East schedule.

The thing which I'm having a hard time getting you to see is that air miles are not the same as road miles. The longest trip facing the Zags is Providence, which is less than 2400 miles. At 600 mph in the air, it's the same amount of time in the air as a 240 mile trip by bus from NYC to Syracuse - without traffic. No one would complain about a bus trip to Syracuse and it was routinely done for years by many NYC teams - not to mention that aside from a nearby school like Colgate, Syracuse had to bus all its teams long distances forever because there was no one else close to them. Think about the distances Maine had to bus every single one of their teams forever. It takes 3 hours just to get out of the state when you drive south from Orono. And all of this was done for more than half a century from such places before they laid a single mile of interstate highway, making such trips twice as long.

I'm not saying that long distance travel isn't an issue for Gonzaga. It is. But it's an issue for them right now and they're doing it in a mid major conference with mid major revenue. Half the conference is already more than a 1000-1200 miles away from them in Southern California.

I'm sure that Gonzaga knows that their are many ways of scheduling to lessen the impact of the worst of such travel, e.g. play 2-3 road games on the same trip and include women's games in that same trip, schedule the longest trips around vacations and holidays, schedule divisional play so road trips to all East Coast schools don't occur every year.

[stever20]

travel is not just distance. It's time zones. St John's plays a Thursday night game in Spokane, they have 0% chance of getting back for a Friday class. St John's plays at Dayton or SLU even- and there's a pretty solid chance the kids are back in time for the class.

[NJRedman]

Frankly I wasn't even thinking of St. John's when I mentioned NY-Buffalo road trips. I know for a fact that way before the MAAC, Manhattan and St. Peter's both had long standing home and home series against Canisius and Niagara. One trip would get them 2 games up there. Same thing when the Buffalo schools came down here in alternate years. But I also know that St. John's has a long history of playing Niagara as well.

Those were just examples of long bus rides that went on all over the country. In the Ivy League, Penn was making an annual trek to Hanover, NH to play Dartmouth. In the Yankee Conference,UConn was busing up to Orono, Maine. Those are just examples in the East. LA schools were busing up to Pullman, Washington and Moscow, Idaho. (U of Idaho was once a member AAWU, forerunner of the now Pac12). Ohio to Iowa, Arizona to Wyoming, Florida to Nashville were all long bus trips back before the interstate highway system and even after.

I agree with you that road trips of this length are a problem, but they're not a problem for the teams that do them once a year. They're a problem for the teams making multiple trips in the same year. West Virginia has already complained about this in the Big XII. In this case, the school making multiple trips is Gonzaga. They say it is not a problem for them. I take them at their word. Their teams are already in planes routinely to go to Southern California and elsewhere in their far flung conference, so I guess they feel that once they're in the air, the extra hour or two, which is all it is, is worth the benefits they would receive.

Footprints are expanding everywhere even if few stretch 2400 miles. The Pacific-12 now stretches east of the Rocky Mountains. The Texas-based Big XII to West Virginia'. The Southeast Conference now includes schools from the old Southwest Conference, the Atlantic Coast has reached into the Ohio Valley and the Great Lakes. The Big Ten now is on the East Coast and the Big east is in Nebraska. Obviously geographically tight-knit conferences are a thing of the past. Jet planes have shrunk distances so what was once inconceivable is now reality.

You ask why anyone else isn't going coast to coast. Well, it's because geographically compact conferences make more sense in many ways IF they can be put together with schools of common interests and similar levels of competition. When the C7 opted to go 90% Catholic and 100% private! they limited the field of candidates. IF they want to be a major player among power basketball conferences, they've limited the field even further. Gonzaga is by far the most successful non-football Catholic basketball program outside the Big East in the past 2 decades. That's why they keep coming up in the discussion. They fit the criteria in every way except geography.

Whatever assets that St Louis and Dayton bring - which are several for each school as you've enumerated - neither has demonstrated the ability to sustain a successful program for a significant length of time. That"s a real problem for a league that aspires to the big time. Once Miller leaves Dayton - as he will - what happens to that recent success? St largeLouis is under the fun right now to show that they can sustain their program in the post-Majerus era.

BTW, St. John's would be bragging about its 1999 Elite 8 if they had continued to be successful just as Duke continues to brag about national championships which we're won more than 20 years ago. When they're part of an ongoing pattern of success, they're still relevant. When the trend has changed directions, then they're ancient history. Ongoing success at Georgetown and Villanova still brings mention of their national championships won in the 1980's because they are the epitome of the ongoing success of great programs. Same for Notre Dame football which hasn't won a title in more than 25 years.

Don't you see that you're proving my point for me? The Zags would have to take on the burden of that travel and look at what that did to WVU who isn't nearly a far from the Big XII as the Zags are from the BE. They could easily falter and struggle dealing with all that travel. That is a legit concern and a realistic possibility.

Yes, I agree that it's a legitimate concern for Gonzaga, but that doesn't explain why it's such a big concern for a St. John's fan or for the rest of the league.

As for the Zags, they're willing to do it because they already have to fly everywhere they go and therefore they have their own charter for all their teams because they have long distances currently. They also have to add extra trips right now to the Midwest, the South, and the East to improve their strength of schedule, something which would not be an issue with a Big East schedule.

The thing which I'm having a hard time getting you to see is that air miles are not the same as road miles. The longest trip facing the Zags is Providence, which is less than 2400 miles. At 600 mph in the air, it's the same amount of time in the air as a 240 mile trip by bus from NYC to Syracuse - without traffic. No one would complain about a bus trip to Syracuse and it was routinely done for years by many NYC teams - not to mention that aside from a nearby school like Colgate, Syracuse had to bus all its teams long distances forever because there was no one else close to them. Think about the distances Maine had to bus every single one of their teams forever. It takes 3 hours just to get out of the state when you drive south from Orono. And all of this was done for more than half a century from such places before they laid a single mile of interstate highway, making such trips twice as long.

I'm not saying that long distance travel isn't an issue for Gonzaga. It is. But it's an issue for them right now and they're doing it in a mid major conference with mid major revenue. Half the conference is already more than a 1000-1200 miles away from them in Southern California.

I'm sure that Gonzaga knows that their are many ways of scheduling to lessen the impact of the worst of such travel, e.g. play 2-3 road games on the same trip and include women's games in that same trip, schedule the longest trips around vacations and holidays, schedule divisional play so road trips to all East Coast schools don't occur every year.

Why do I care? Well because I'd rather have a team who can contribute to the league. If the Zags can't handle the travel and become a bottom dweller than that brings zero value to the league. They aren't in a big market, aren't in a great recruiting ground, aren't in a city full of conference alum and will bring very few fans to the BET. Where is the upside in have a Zags team that struggles? If they struggle then we can't count on all that past success they've had. I don't know why you are saying the milage didn't work for WVU but it will for the Zags. It's not just the miles but time zones. Traveling north and south is not even close to the same as traveling east and west.

The best options for the conference if/when it chooses to expand are SLU, Dayton and VCU. The Zags just aren't in the cards now, and won't be until 4 or 5 fellow west coast private schools get their acts together and raise their profile enough for a full on western wing can be a legitimate option.

[TheHall]

Why do I care? Well because I'd rather have a team who can contribute to the league. If the Zags can't handle the travel and become a bottom dweller than that brings zero value to the league. They aren't in a big market, aren't in a great recruiting ground, aren't in a city full of conference alum and will bring very few fans to the BET. Where is the upside in have a Zags team that struggles? If they struggle then we can't count on all that past success they've had. I don't know why you are saying the milage didn't work for WVU but it will for the Zags. It's not just the miles but time zones. Traveling north and south is not even close to the same as traveling east and west.

The best options for the conference if/when it chooses to expand are SLU, Dayton and VCU. The Zags just aren't in the cards now, and won't be until 4 or 5 fellow west coast private schools get their acts together and raise their profile enough for a full on western wing can be a legitimate option.

I just don't believe that the conference has gone down so much that we need a finished product or "perfect" school to consider for expansion and that's a good thing because there aren't any out there at the moment. In the new Big East, if a school becomes a bottom dweller its not just on that school it's on the conference too. Everyone is working to get this league back to the top & $$ doesn't seem to be an issue. Every member's ability to recruit, hire big time coaches, be seen on tv, get corporate support, & overall cash flow is increased entering the BE. Thinking that Gonzaga is going to fail if they have all those new assets & support just seems like chicken little fear mongering.

Personally I don't think any of the main schools being discussed will fail or cause the league to fail. This has just been a conversation about who would help the most for me. The conversation you seem to be having is who is at risk of failing the most. A fair point but the conference has to be bold to come out on top in the long run not fearful IMO.

[NJRedman]

Why do I care? Well because I'd rather have a team who can contribute to the league. If the Zags can't handle the travel and become a bottom dweller than that brings zero value to the league. They aren't in a big market, aren't in a great recruiting ground, aren't in a city full of conference alum and will bring very few fans to the BET. Where is the upside in have a Zags team that struggles? If they struggle then we can't count on all that past success they've had. I don't know why you are saying the milage didn't work for WVU but it will for the Zags. It's not just the miles but time zones. Traveling north and south is not even close to the same as traveling east and west.

The best options for the conference if/when it chooses to expand are SLU, Dayton and VCU. The Zags just aren't in the cards now, and won't be until 4 or 5 fellow west coast private schools get their acts together and raise their profile enough for a full on western wing can be a legitimate option.

I just don't believe that the conference has gone down so much that we need a finished product or "perfect" school to consider for expansion and that's a good thing because there aren't any out there at the moment. In the new Big East, if a school becomes a bottom dweller its not just on that school it's on the conference too. Everyone is working to get this league back to the top & $$ doesn't seem to be an issue. Every member's ability to recruit, hire big time coaches, be seen on tv, get corporate support, & overall cash flow is increased entering the BE. Thinking that Gonzaga is going to fail if they have all those new assets & support just seems like chicken little fear mongering.

Personally I don't think any of the main schools being discussed will fail or cause the league to fail. This has just been a conversation about who would help the most for me. The conversation you seem to be having is who is at risk of failing the most. A fair point but the conference has to be bold to come out on top in the long run not fearful IMO.

Chicken little fear mongering? You must not have a job where tough choices must be made. Risk assessment is definitely an important thing to do in the business world. There are risks adding a school that is on the west coast for a conference who is NE/Mid-west based. If you can't understand that then i'm just wasting my breathe trying to have this conversation.

The value of an expansion candidate is about how much value they bring to the league even when they have a down stretch. Anyone can bring value when they are winning but the truly valuable bring value when they are losing. Everyone has down periods even the blue bloods like UCLA, UNC and UK. Thats the issue we are talking about, thats what you are failing to grasp. The Zags will have a big increase in travel and competition, those are big factors they would have to deal with. You writing them off as just people "hating" "fear mongering" or being a "chicken little" just shows how little you understand of the expansion process.

Even if SLU struggles they bring a top level media market with them which makes our TV contract more valuable. Even if Dayton struggles they still bring a big fan base who will travel to NYC for the BET and are also in a good size TV market. If VCU struggles they have a fan base who can easily travel to the BET and brings in the Richmond/VA TV market. So i'll ask again, what does Gonzaga bring to the table if they struggle?

[TheHall]

Why do I care? Well because I'd rather have a team who can contribute to the league. If the Zags can't handle the travel and become a bottom dweller than that brings zero value to the league. They aren't in a big market, aren't in a great recruiting ground, aren't in a city full of conference alum and will bring very few fans to the BET. Where is the upside in have a Zags team that struggles? If they struggle then we can't count on all that past success they've had. I don't know why you are saying the milage didn't work for WVU but it will for the Zags. It's not just the miles but time zones. Traveling north and south is not even close to the same as traveling east and west.

The best options for the conference if/when it chooses to expand are SLU, Dayton and VCU. The Zags just aren't in the cards now, and won't be until 4 or 5 fellow west coast private schools get their acts together and raise their profile enough for a full on western wing can be a legitimate option.

I just don't believe that the conference has gone down so much that we need a finished product or "perfect" school to consider for expansion and that's a good thing because there aren't any out there at the moment. In the new Big East, if a school becomes a bottom dweller its not just on that school it's on the conference too. Everyone is working to get this league back to the top & $$ doesn't seem to be an issue. Every member's ability to recruit, hire big time coaches, be seen on tv, get corporate support, & overall cash flow is increased entering the BE. Thinking that Gonzaga is going to fail if they have all those new assets & support just seems like chicken little fear mongering.

Personally I don't think any of the main schools being discussed will fail or cause the league to fail. This has just been a conversation about who would help the most for me. The conversation you seem to be having is who is at risk of failing the most. A fair point but the conference has to be bold to come out on top in the long run not fearful IMO.

Chicken little fear mongering? You must not have a job where tough choices must be made. Risk assessment is definitely an important thing to do in the business world. There are risks adding a school that is on the west coast for a conference who is NE/Mid-west based. If you can't understand that then i'm just wasting my breathe trying to have this conversation.

The value of an expansion candidate is about how much value they bring to the league even when they have a down stretch. Anyone can bring value when they are winning but the truly valuable bring value when they are losing. Everyone has down periods even the blue bloods like UCLA, UNC and UK. Thats the issue we are talking about, thats what you are failing to grasp. The Zags will have a big increase in travel and competition, those are big factors they would have to deal with. You writing them off as just people "hating" "fear mongering" or being a "chicken little" just shows how little you understand of the expansion process.

Even if SLU struggles they bring a top level media market with them which makes our TV contract more valuable. Even if Dayton struggles they still bring a big fan base who will travel to NYC for the BET and are also in a good size TV market. If VCU struggles they have a fan base who can easily travel to the BET and brings in the Richmond/VA TV market. So i'll ask again, what does Gonzaga bring to the table if they struggle?

Not sure how old you are but the Big East was founded on being bold, it was greed that took down the old league not poor risk assessment. Going with FOX vs. ESPN was bold. Gonzaga has been relevant through the past 2 decades coming out of the WCC of all places, through multiple coaches, plenty of BE squads can't say that. The Zags belong in the conversation.

Btw as an IE I don't usual make decisions off of risk assessment ("worst case" planning), but instead risk/reward based on a certain level of confidence...Like what if SJU never gets it turned around in the BE's largest market. That had to be on FOX's risk/reward model. They probably figured well at least Seton Hall increases their chances to be successful there too