Commissioner "Val"

[stever20]

Gonzaga is so overrated it's not funny. They haven't even done the final 4 that VCU or Wichita or Butler were able to do. heck, not even elite 8 after their 1st time either. I think they would be a terrible add....

The schools you listed were or would be great additions too, but none of them have had the sustained success of the Zags. Also I think its short sighted to downpllay how the Zags could be a West Coast gateway for recruiting to the rest of the Big East. We currently get no play out there, but in the oBE cuse had a nice pipeline to LA. So besides flexing your oscar the grouch muscle what's your point with over criticizing a solid program that did it the right way?

Gonzaga has gotten to the 2nd weekend only 2 times in the last 13 years- and never to the elite 8 in that period- and never to the final 4. they just aren't worth the travel problems they would create in the conference. 3 times they had a sweet 16 seed in those 13 years and lost 1st weekend. Haven't beaten better than a 6 seed in those 13 years.

now compare to Butler and Xavier(Creighton didn't even have those credentials)-
Butler- been to the 2nd weekend 4 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 final game appearances
Xavier-been to the 2nd weekend 5 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 elite 8's

So I would say that Butler and Xavier did have the sustained sucess that Gonzaga had. Give me 5 sweet 16's with 2 missed tourney's over Gonzaga any time. Give me 2 final game appearances over Gonzaga any time. If Gonzaga had the Butler resume it would have been much more attractive to me.

[Bill Marsh]

Gonzaga is so overrated it's not funny. They haven't even done the final 4 that VCU or Wichita or Butler were able to do. heck, not even elite 8 after their 1st time either. I think they would be a terrible add....

The schools you listed were or would be great additions too, but none of them have had the sustained success of the Zags. Also I think its short sighted to downpllay how the Zags could be a West Coast gateway for recruiting to the rest of the Big East. We currently get no play out there, but in the oBE cuse had a nice pipeline to LA. So besides flexing your oscar the grouch muscle what's your point with over criticizing a solid program that did it the right way?

Gonzaga has gotten to the 2nd weekend only 2 times in the last 13 years- and never to the elite 8 in that period- and never to the final 4. they just aren't worth the travel problems they would create in the conference. 3 times they had a sweet 16 seed in those 13 years and lost 1st weekend. Haven't beaten better than a 6 seed in those 13 years.

now compare to Butler and Xavier(Creighton didn't even have those credentials)-
Butler- been to the 2nd weekend 4 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 final game appearances
Xavier-been to the 2nd weekend 5 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 elite 8's

So I would say that Butler and Xavier did have the sustained sucess that Gonzaga had. Give me 5 sweet 16's with 2 missed tourney's over Gonzaga any time. Give me 2 final game appearances over Gonzaga any time. If Gonzaga had the Butler resume it would have been much more attractive to me.

Steve, why 13 years? Is that a significant number? Why not 12? Why not 14? LOL. Just kidding.

I get your point. Despite their success in getting to the tournament, once they get there, they prove time after time that they're just a very good mid major. Got it.

All that's fine. But even for a mid major, they're incredibly consistent. They're on a very short list of programs that have made it to the tournament 16 years in a row with 5 Sweet 16s and an elite & during that run. That sure is a great base on which to build when a school elevates its program from a mid major conference to a major. Show me a stronger candidate.

Gonzaga's biggest asset is not their NCAA tournament record. For whatever reason, they've become a household name. They're a highly recognizable program, which makes them a lot easier to market in any game. People tune in to watch them play. That's why they would be a major asset to the conference.

What's the "not worth the trouble" comment? What trouble? One long road trip per year. Maybe every other year. It was harder 50-60 years ago when schools were busing their teams before the interstate highway system was built. Before that it was trains.

All the "trouble" is born by Gonzaga. If they're not bothered by it, why are you?

[NJRedman]

Hey Redman I can tell you're losing it on this one just by that scrambled up post of yours. If I couldn't tell from the post then it would have been how you wasted your time with that straw man comparison between Uconn & Gonzaga. Where did you see me make that ridiculous comparison? Anyway about the Butler comparison though, you don't think they were a good addition? I do but back to back final fours can be attributed to a coach and a few key players. 16 NCAA bids in a row can't be explained away by 1 coach, a couple of players, a recruiting class, or even a weak league. You're simply hating and its ok but just come out and say it though.

How am I losing it? You're the one who brought up UConn, not me. Don't know why you tried to compare them to the Zags, but that was all you.

Never said Butler wasn't a good addition, now who wants to talk about straw men?

16 NCAA bids can be explained very easily. They play in a crappy conference with no real threat to their throne. It's a 1 MAYBE 2 bid league every year.

How is looking into the future hating? Just because you have a giant hard on for the Zags doesn't mean everyone has to look through your rose colored glasses. Why don't you answer my question that I have posted many many times. What happens if they can't cut it and become an also ran or even worse, a bottom dweller? What do we do then with an albatross around our necks thats 3000 miles away? You seem to dodge that question and say it's not based on fact. Well Butler struggled, why can't the Zags? Creighton is looking at a rough next season, why couldn't the same be true for the Zags? Your assumption that because they dominated a weak WCC that they can compete year in and year out in the Big East is less likely than my scenario.

Oh and they were the #1 team in the country with the #1 overall seed and was still passed up for membership. It seems that the presidents agree with me more than they do with you.

[Bill Marsh]

Hey Redman I can tell you're losing it on this one just by that scrambled up post of yours. If I couldn't tell from the post then it would have been how you wasted your time with that straw man comparison between Uconn & Gonzaga. Where did you see me make that ridiculous comparison? Anyway about the Butler comparison though, you don't think they were a good addition? I do but back to back final fours can be attributed to a coach and a few key players. 16 NCAA bids in a row can't be explained away by 1 coach, a couple of players, a recruiting class, or even a weak league. You're simply hating and its ok but just come out and say it though.

How am I losing it? You're the one who brought up UConn, not me. Don't know why you tried to compare them to the Zags, but that was all you.

Never said Butler wasn't a good addition, now who wants to talk about straw men?

16 NCAA bids can be explained very easily. They play in a crappy conference with no real threat to their throne. It's a 1 MAYBE 2 bid league every year.

How is looking into the future hating? Just because you have a giant hard on for the Zags doesn't mean everyone has to look through your rose colored glasses. Why don't you answer my question that I have posted many many times. What happens if they can't cut it and become an also ran or even worse, a bottom dweller? What do we do then with an albatross around our necks thats 3000 miles away? You seem to dodge that question and say it's not based on fact. Well Butler struggled, why can't the Zags? Creighton is looking at a rough next season, why couldn't the same be true for the Zags? Your assumption that because they dominated a weak WCC that they can compete year in and year out in the Big East is less likely than my scenario.

Oh and they were the #1 team in the country with the #1 overall seed and was still passed up for membership. It seems that the presidents agree with me more than they do with you.

First of all, they're not 3000 miles away. They're about 2000 air miles for East Coast schools. 2190 from NYC, closer for everyone else except Providence.

Second, college presidents didn't get where they are because they're good businessmen. They're notoriously conservative in their decision making. The fact that they couldn't see their way to adding Gonzaga the first time around doesn't mean they won't in the future.

Third, 16 bids can't simply be explained by being in a crappy conference. If your theory is correct, you must be able to show me another program in a crappy conference with 16 consecutive bids. Please, be my guest.

Fourth, Gonzaga is simply not an albatross. They have a rabid fan base that sells out every game. That isn't going away overnight even if they have some bad seasons. They're like Providence, or Creighton, or Dayton. They're the "pro" franchise in town. Fans will attend their games in good times and bad. That's good for the conference. Furthermore, they've become a household name, which means that people turn on games that they play in, which helps with TV ratings and is good for marketing the conference.

Fifth, Gonzaga is simply one long road trip a year at most. This is the 21st century with jet planes that travel 500-600 miles per hour. I guarantee you that Gonzaga is a shorter, more comfortable road trip these days than NYC to Buffalo was by bus 50 years ago when that was an 8 hour trip. There were plenty of those kinds of bus trips all over the country in the past. Before the interstate highway system was built, they were a nightmare. And before that, travel was by train which was even longer. Yet teams did it all the time. there is nothing that makes this as burdensome as you make it sound for anyone other than Gonzaga themselves. And they have spoken on the subject. They have no problem with it and would love to join the Big East.

Frankly I can't find one negative about adding them.

[TheHall]

And Butler dominated the Horizon league, that doesn't mean they were able to come right in and continue to be a top flight program. If Doug Mc didn't come back Creighton would have struggled as well after dominating the MVC. Dominating a 1-2 bid league is not the same as being a legit top tier program.

That kid said he wanted to play in the NCAA tourney, so he went to a team that dominates a mid-major conference.

You can't even compare the Zags to UConn, the Huskies have been in a legit conference every year since 1979. Even this season they were competing with programs like UofL and Memphis.

Spokane is the Alabama of the Pacific Northwest. One of co-workers is from up there. It's all about hunting, riding off road vehicles and being a redneck. It's beautiful but not even close to bring similar to most of the leagues culture. Oh and it's 3000 miles from half the league.

There's your Butler comparison Redman & your straw man argument too. No one claimed the Zags would come in and dominate, but to make it seem like the Zags couldn't compete in the BE or that they aren't a bigger brand than SLU, VCU, Dayton or any of the other likely candidates is pure hating. Besides the Zags & all those potential candidates have characteristics that will get instantly improved if they join the BE, recruiting being a major one. Just look at the recruits & transfers CU & BU are attracting after 1 year. Now you're telling me that the Zags brand in combination with the BE brand isn't more valuable than Dayton (no offense) or the others.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to show me where I compared Uconn's BE resume to the Zags

[TheHall]

Gonzaga has gotten to the 2nd weekend only 2 times in the last 13 years- and never to the elite 8 in that period- and never to the final 4. they just aren't worth the travel problems they would create in the conference. 3 times they had a sweet 16 seed in those 13 years and lost 1st weekend. Haven't beaten better than a 6 seed in those 13 years.

now compare to Butler and Xavier(Creighton didn't even have those credentials)-
Butler- been to the 2nd weekend 4 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 final game appearances
Xavier-been to the 2nd weekend 5 times in their prior 13 years- with 2 elite 8's

So I would say that Butler and Xavier did have the sustained sucess that Gonzaga had. Give me 5 sweet 16's with 2 missed tourney's over Gonzaga any time. Give me 2 final game appearances over Gonzaga any time. If Gonzaga had the Butler resume it would have been much more attractive to me.

??? What program wouldn't look better with an additional 2 FF's on their resume? Do you get that expansion is about making an investment not just buying something that is already at full value. You're the guy talking about that empty lot aint worth a dime & I'm the one saying yeah but it's in an area that coming up & its cheap. ANyway Butler's already in the BE. We're comparing the Zags to who's available...

[NJRedman]

Hey Redman I can tell you're losing it on this one just by that scrambled up post of yours. If I couldn't tell from the post then it would have been how you wasted your time with that straw man comparison between Uconn & Gonzaga. Where did you see me make that ridiculous comparison? Anyway about the Butler comparison though, you don't think they were a good addition? I do but back to back final fours can be attributed to a coach and a few key players. 16 NCAA bids in a row can't be explained away by 1 coach, a couple of players, a recruiting class, or even a weak league. You're simply hating and its ok but just come out and say it though.

How am I losing it? You're the one who brought up UConn, not me. Don't know why you tried to compare them to the Zags, but that was all you.

Never said Butler wasn't a good addition, now who wants to talk about straw men?

16 NCAA bids can be explained very easily. They play in a crappy conference with no real threat to their throne. It's a 1 MAYBE 2 bid league every year.

How is looking into the future hating? Just because you have a giant hard on for the Zags doesn't mean everyone has to look through your rose colored glasses. Why don't you answer my question that I have posted many many times. What happens if they can't cut it and become an also ran or even worse, a bottom dweller? What do we do then with an albatross around our necks thats 3000 miles away? You seem to dodge that question and say it's not based on fact. Well Butler struggled, why can't the Zags? Creighton is looking at a rough next season, why couldn't the same be true for the Zags? Your assumption that because they dominated a weak WCC that they can compete year in and year out in the Big East is less likely than my scenario.

Oh and they were the #1 team in the country with the #1 overall seed and was still passed up for membership. It seems that the presidents agree with me more than they do with you.

First of all, they're not 3000 miles away. They're about 2000 air miles for East Coast schools. 2190 from NYC, closer for everyone else except Providence.

Second, college presidents didn't get where they are because they're good businessmen. They're notoriously conservative in their decision making. The fact that they couldn't see their way to adding Gonzaga the first time around doesn't mean they won't in the future.

Third, 16 bids can't simply be explained by being in a crappy conference. If your theory is correct, you must be able to show me another program in a crappy conference with 16 consecutive bids. Please, be my guest.

Fourth, Gonzaga is simply not an albatross. They have a rabid fan base that sells out every game. That isn't going away overnight even if they have some bad seasons. They're like Providence, or Creighton, or Dayton. They're the "pro" franchise in town. Fans will attend their games in good times and bad. That's good for the conference. Furthermore, they've become a household name, which means that people turn on games that they play in, which helps with TV ratings and is good for marketing the conference.

Fifth, Gonzaga is simply one long road trip a year at most. This is the 21st century with jet planes that travel 500-600 miles per hour. I guarantee you that Gonzaga is a shorter, more comfortable road trip these days than NYC to Buffalo was by bus 50 years ago when that was an 8 hour trip. There were plenty of those kinds of bus trips all over the country in the past. Before the interstate highway system was built, they were a nightmare. And before that, travel was by train which was even longer. Yet teams did it all the time. there is nothing that makes this as burdensome as you make it sound for anyone other than Gonzaga themselves. And they have spoken on the subject. They have no problem with it and would love to join the Big East.

Frankly I can't find one negative about adding them.

Well thats because you aren't living in reality.

Why do you keep bring up these imaginary bus trips to Buffalo 50 years ago? 50 years ago it was harder to get anywhere, WTF does that have to do with anything? We're talking about cross country flights, not traveling within the same state. There are things called "time-zones", and in them it is a different time than all the others. It's a really wonderful thing that is based on the way the earth spins, but thats a different story.

You have no evidence they will show up in bad times, by your own admission they have been awesome for 16 years, so right there you are talking out of your ass. Also, they aren't like Creighton or Dayton, those schools are top ten and top 25 in attendance, the Zags aren't close to that.

Just because no other Mid-Major conference has had a team dominate it, that doesn't mean that the WCC is a tough league or that the Zags are a powerhouse. I can't believe i'm agreeing with Stever but his post is correct about their lack of NCAA success compared to other (some former) Mid-Major schools like Butler, X, WSU or even VCU. I would bet that if you replaced in any team that finished fourth in the nBE any given year with the Zags they would easily win the conference.

[Bill Marsh]

And Butler dominated the Horizon league, that doesn't mean they were able to come right in and continue to be a top flight program. If Doug Mc didn't come back Creighton would have struggled as well after dominating the MVC. Dominating a 1-2 bid league is not the same as being a legit top tier program.

That kid said he wanted to play in the NCAA tourney, so he went to a team that dominates a mid-major conference.

You can't even compare the Zags to UConn, the Huskies have been in a legit conference every year since 1979. Even this season they were competing with programs like UofL and Memphis.

Spokane is the Alabama of the Pacific Northwest. One of co-workers is from up there. It's all about hunting, riding off road vehicles and being a redneck. It's beautiful but not even close to bring similar to most of the leagues culture. Oh and it's 3000 miles from half the league.

There's your Butler comparison Redman & your straw man argument too. No one claimed the Zags would come in and dominate, but to make it seem like the Zags couldn't compete in the BE or that they aren't a bigger brand than SLU, VCU, Dayton or any of the other likely candidates is pure hating. Besides the Zags & all those potential candidates have characteristics that will get instantly improved if they join the BE, recruiting being a major one. Just look at the recruits & transfers CU & BU are attracting after 1 year. Now you're telling me that the Zags brand in combination with the BE brand isn't more valuable than Dayton (no offense) or the others.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to show me where I compared Uconn's BE resume to the Zags

Completely agree.

I have to wonder why UConn is even in this conversation. How are they relevant? Is someone actually holding out hopes that they'll join the Big East? That's even crazier than hoping for Gonzaga. They just hired the hottest assistant football coach in the country. They didn't do that so they could move their football program to independence or the Sun Belt, either of which would be a disaster for them.

And what's with the cultural similarities or dissimilarities? They're a Jesuit school. I think that gives them a lot in common right off the bat. How are they any different than Creighton culturally? Regardless, this is a basketball conference. They're a basketball school. That's enough to have in common.

[NJRedman]

And Butler dominated the Horizon league, that doesn't mean they were able to come right in and continue to be a top flight program. If Doug Mc didn't come back Creighton would have struggled as well after dominating the MVC. Dominating a 1-2 bid league is not the same as being a legit top tier program.

That kid said he wanted to play in the NCAA tourney, so he went to a team that dominates a mid-major conference.

You can't even compare the Zags to UConn, the Huskies have been in a legit conference every year since 1979. Even this season they were competing with programs like UofL and Memphis.

Spokane is the Alabama of the Pacific Northwest. One of co-workers is from up there. It's all about hunting, riding off road vehicles and being a redneck. It's beautiful but not even close to bring similar to most of the leagues culture. Oh and it's 3000 miles from half the league.

There's your Butler comparison Redman & your straw man argument too. No one claimed the Zags would come in and dominate, but to make it seem like the Zags couldn't compete in the BE or that they aren't a bigger brand than SLU, VCU, Dayton or any of the other likely candidates is pure hating. Besides the Zags & all those potential candidates have characteristics that will get instantly improved if they join the BE, recruiting being a major one. Just look at the recruits & transfers CU & BU are attracting after 1 year. Now you're telling me that the Zags brand in combination with the BE brand isn't more valuable than Dayton (no offense) or the others.

Btw I'm still waiting for you to show me where I compared Uconn's BE resume to the Zags

My straw man argument? I'm pretty sure Butler had the better program coming out of the one bid league than the Zags and they struggled, yet you say the Zags won't or can't?

Trying to have a realistic geographic footprint is now called hating? Thinking a school thats 2000 miles away could fall off is now hating? Do you know what that word means? Do you understand how it's used in popular culture today?

[NJRedman]

Gonzaga may not have convinced you that they are a top flight bball program now, but I gotta believe you're in the minority on that one. The BE will be great with or without the Zags but to say they aren't up to it is out-dated logic, kind of like the people not accepting that Uconn is a a, if not THE, premier basketball school in the country now.

Btw you need stop hating on Spokane, makes you seem old. I don't think there are many ballers in the BE who wouldn't love to a road trip to the Great state of Washington.

And Butler dominated the Horizon league, that doesn't mean they were able to come right in and continue to be a top flight program. If Doug Mc didn't come back Creighton would have struggled as well after dominating the MVC. Dominating a 1-2 bid league is not the same as being a legit top tier program.

That kid said he wanted to play in the NCAA tourney, so he went to a team that dominates a mid-major conference.

You can't even compare the Zags to UConn, the Huskies have been in a legit conference every year since 1979. Even this season they were competing with programs like UofL and Memphis.

Spokane is the Alabama of the Pacific Northwest. One of co-workers is from up there. It's all about hunting, riding off road vehicles and being a redneck. It's beautiful but not even close to bring similar to most of the leagues culture. Oh and it's 3000 miles from half the league.