Chicago Sun Times: 15th and 16th Schools Coming for Big Ten

[aughnanure]

Um this part?: "Four 16-team leagues. And good luck if you’re not among those 64."

Yes it's not an issue in the short term. But long term if we do move to 4 16 team leagues there's nothing to stop those leagues from cutting everyone else out. I see no reason for them to not cut us out. I don't buy that people like the NCAA tournament the way it is so much that they wouldn't cut out the midmajors. Are people really going to not watch because all the teams are good? BS. Most people prefer to watch two ranked teams play. We could all be on the outside looking in in 10 years.

I really think a lot of these articles are written from only the vantage point of football. They know they can't run college basketball with 64 teams. They try to do their own tourney they will kill March Madness and never get it back, and they know that. That is their money-maker. NOT regular season ranked match-ups. What, does everyone make the tourney then? Do they cut it back to 32 teams? The tourney would have been murdered and even casual fans would know who to blame.

... now, could they kick out the bottom 100-150 teams/conferences and help divide up the March Madness pie much more generously for themselves? Yes. But the talk of 64 teams running off to create their own tourney (and likely illegally not allowing other schools to join) is putting the cart waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahead of the horse.

[aughnanure]

If this is true, bye bye AAC, we hardly knew ya!

Don't do to them, what everyone does to us. The P5 is the enemy. Regardless, I'd put a lot of money on the B1G grabbing UConn. Not sure who #16 is (Kansas? Notre Dame finally?) but if they're going East there's really on UConn left in the NE to add.

[Michael in Raleigh]

I read the column. Repeat: this is a COLUMN, i.e., a commentary on news that the public has had the opportunity to digest, namely the Gavitt Games and the Big Ten's 2017 basketball tournament in Washington. It is NOT a report of new information at all. His prediction is just his opinion. He's just saying that, well, the next logical stop, given Delany's history, would be to expand to 16 schools.

That's completely different from something like this, "According to multiple sources, the Big Ten plans to expand to 16 schools in _______ amount of time." Such a statement would be an actual report of news that the Big Ten is, verifiably, exploring expansion to 16.

They aren't rumored to be looking at ANYONE other than rumors created on a message board or just guesses.

The writer says, basically, that Delany has always been ahead of the curve in college athletics. No argument there. He started with expansion to 11 with Penn State. Then he helped put together the BCS by bringing the B1G, Rose Bowl, and Pac-10 into the fold. Later he started up the BTN, an enormous boon for that conference. Then he expanded with Nebraska, and soon after, Maryland and Rutgers. He's expected to help land a new TV deal which, combined with the BTN, will net each B1G school over $40 million/year, easily trumping the SEC financially. He clearly is trying to win over the Northeast (most particularly its cable subscribers) with moves like the Gavitt Tipoff Games and the DC tournament.

So, the writer says, what will Delany and the B1G do to bring in even more money to prep for paying athletes, who could potentially become employees? Expand to 16. That's according to the writer. He doesn't suggest that he's getting that idea from any source other than his own mind.

There's a reason why the B1G hasn't hinted at further expansion. First of all, after watching the pubic ugliness that came from the way the Big 12 schools left their league, Delany knows better than to leak any info. That's why no one knew Rutgers or Maryland were leaving their leagues until the very last minute. Second, Delany knows that buying out any ACC or Big 12 teams from the grant-of-rights that last for the next 10-15 years will be unbelievably expensive. No one has ever challenged a grant-of-rights in court before, and it's very possible they can't be broken. And, by the way, the B1G has a grant of rights. Would Delany really want to challenge the legitimacy of another league's grant of rights if doing so would render his own league's GOR worthless? I don't think so. The writer doesn't account for any of this. He simply sticks to his opinion that the Big Ten will expand because, hey, that's what they do.

Now, if the B1G really wants UConn and another AAC school, they are there for the taking. A $10 million exit fee is chump change for those schools compared to the riches they'd get in the Big Ten. But, given the B1G's insistence for AAU members, with exceptions made only for Notre Dame (Nebraska was AAU when they were admitted), the presidents would have to have an enormous change of course to add UConn. And even with the Huskies, which AAC team could possibly help the Big Ten make more money? Temple? I can't think of one.

This is much ado about nothing.

[Michael in Raleigh]

Tom Dienhart from BTN tweeted something similar, saying big changes afoot in the next two months.

Yeah, it's called Power Five autonomy, not Big Ten expansion.

[stever20]

If this is true, bye bye AAC, we hardly knew ya!

Why? Considering
ACC 14 teams
SEC 14 teams
Big Ten 14 teams
Big 12 10 teams
Pac 12 12 teams

which equals 64 teams- what makes you think ANY team in the 64 right now would be left out?

[aughnanure]

I read the column. Repeat: this is a COLUMN, i.e., a commentary on news that the public has had the opportunity to digest, namely the Gavitt Games and the Big Ten's 2017 basketball tournament in Washington. It is NOT a report of new information at all. His prediction is just his opinion. He's just saying that, well, the next logical stop, given Delany's history, would be to expand to 16 schools.

That's completely different from something like this, "According to multiple sources, the Big Ten plans to expand to 16 schools in _______ amount of time." Such a statement would be an actual report of news that the Big Ten is, verifiably, exploring expansion to 16.

They aren't rumored to be looking at ANYONE other than rumors created on a message board or just guesses.

This is much ado about nothing.

"So, embrace change, Big Ten Nation. Time is marching on in this new Big Ten world that now will feature an anchor event on the Eastern Seaboard. Expect more, as Delany has alluded to coming announcements in the next “60 days.” Some of those surely will entail news of events out East."

http://btn.com/2014/05/06/dienhart-d-c- ... ig-change/

[Michael in Raleigh]

I read the column. Repeat: this is a COLUMN, i.e., a commentary on news that the public has had the opportunity to digest, namely the Gavitt Games and the Big Ten's 2017 basketball tournament in Washington. It is NOT a report of new information at all. His prediction is just his opinion. He's just saying that, well, the next logical stop, given Delany's history, would be to expand to 16 schools.

That's completely different from something like this, "According to multiple sources, the Big Ten plans to expand to 16 schools in _______ amount of time." Such a statement would be an actual report of news that the Big Ten is, verifiably, exploring expansion to 16.

They aren't rumored to be looking at ANYONE other than rumors created on a message board or just guesses.

This is much ado about nothing.

"So, embrace change, Big Ten Nation. Time is marching on in this new Big Ten world that now will feature an anchor event on the Eastern Seaboard. Expect more, as Delany has alluded to coming announcements in the next “60 days.” Some of those surely will entail news of events out East."

http://btn.com/2014/05/06/dienhart-d-c- ... ig-change/

So the only kind of announcements are ones where expansion happens? That's interesting. Couldn't "announcements" also be for other future conference tournaments? The ACC has sites set through 2020; the SEC, through the mid-2020's. Planning tournament sites is on his to-do list, anyway. More tourneys in DC or perhaps at Barclays, the Meadowlands (maybe), or in Philly are perfectly possible and in line with the lines you highlighted. It could also be announcement for the Big Ten football championship to be played on the east coast. (That would definitely be a strong answer back to the ACC's 2-tournament commitment in Brooklyn.) It could be an announcement that the Big Ten Network has struck a deal with cable companies in Maryland, New Jersey, and Greater New York to be on basic cable. All of those things would signify an increased, meaningful presence on the east coast.

Nothing outside of one writer's opinion, which doesn't account for the ACC's or Big 12's grant-of-rights, signals that Delany plans to announce an expansion to 16.

[NJRedman]

"So, embrace change, Big Ten Nation. Time is marching on in this new Big Ten world that now will feature an anchor event on the Eastern Seaboard. Expect more, as Delany has alluded to coming announcements in the next “60 days.” Some of those surely will entail news of events out East."

http://btn.com/2014/05/06/dienhart-d-c- ... ig-change/

So the only kind of announcements are ones where expansion happens? That's interesting. Couldn't "announcements" also be for other future conference tournaments? The ACC has sites set through 2020; the SEC, through the mid-2020's. Planning tournament sites is on his to-do list, anyway. More tourneys in DC or perhaps at Barclays, the Meadowlands (maybe), or in Philly are perfectly possible and in line with the lines you highlighted. It could also be announcement for the Big Ten football championship to be played on the east coast. (That would definitely be a strong answer back to the ACC's 2-tournament commitment in Brooklyn.) It could be an announcement that the Big Ten Network has struck a deal with cable companies in Maryland, New Jersey, and Greater New York to be on basic cable. All of those things would signify an increased, meaningful presence on the east coast.

Nothing outside of one writer's opinion, which doesn't account for the ACC's or Big 12's grant-of-rights, signals that Delany plans to announce an expansion to 16.

Well if I was in Raleigh and a fan of any teams around that general area I wouldn't want to hear that the B1G is expanding either. That would mean that the ACC would certainly be in the crosshairs. The Big XII poses no threat but the ACC is trying to claim something that Delany and the B1G wants, and thats the NE and to a lesser extent Notre Dame. Crippling the ACC or at least weakening it would be in their best interest. The ACC could get a dose of it's own medicine if the B1G uses the methods that they the ACC used against the Big East. I don't know if it will happen in the next 2 months since they haven't even gotten Rutgers and Maryland officially in yet, but in the next few years I can certainly see that happening.

[Bluejay]

I can't find the link now, but yesterday I read a story about the Gavitt Games wherein Delaney was specifically quoted as saying there is no need for expansion now. He said that because of the current uncertainty regarding the NCAA, rule changes and litigation, the Big 10 would not have any reason to expand at this time. I've looked and looked for a link but I can't find it now.... I know that the local sports radio show in Omaha read the story over the air yesterday too as the B1G move to the east is unwelcome news among Nebraska fans in these parts...

Seems like this expansion talk is just another writer's musings.... I swear every writer in the country has opined about the 4 conferences of 16 schools at some point or another...

[Michael in Raleigh]

Well if I was in Raleigh and a fan of any teams around that general area I wouldn't want to hear that the B1G is expanding either. That would mean that the ACC would certainly be in the crosshairs.

That's a fair observation. I don't mind anyone taking into consideration where I'm coming from. I freely admit that I don't want any more Big Ten expansion because I'm an ACC fan, and I know that the ACC would be a target. For that matter, I don't want further ACC expansion, either, whether it would be in response to having teams picked off or not. Nothing against UConn or Cincinnati. It's just that 14 for football and 15 otherwise is more than enough schools.

Meanwhile, I stand by my points, whether it's from an ACC perspective or otherwise.. The ACC's grant of rights, along with the Big 12's, makes it nearly impossible for the Big Ten to expand with teams from those leagues for the duration of those contracts. If, for whatever reason, the Big Ten wanted to challenge the ACC's grant-of-rights in court, they'd also be neutralizing their own grant-of-rights, which contributed to making the Big Ten as strong of a league as it is in the first place. If the Big Ten lost that case, they'd be stuck with a former ACC team in their league whose television money goes not to themselves, but to the ACC.

Grant of rights make it far, far more difficult for leagues to take teams from other leagues than just exit fees. Maryland left knowing they might have to up to $52 million. They'll likely settle for less, but they left feeling it would be worthwhile even if they had to pay in full. Leaving with a grant-of-rights could cost a school hundreds of millions of dollars. Even Big Ten money wouldn't be worth that.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the Big Ten to try to expand with ACC schools. I'm saying it would be pretty crazy to try it, given the GOR's. I'm also saying that nothing in either the Chicago Sun-Times column or the Big Ten Network article indicate that any verifiable source suggests that expansion is in the works.

The Big XII poses no threat but the ACC is trying to claim something that Delany and the B1G wants, and thats the NE and to a lesser extent Notre Dame. Crippling the ACC or at least weakening it would be in their best interest. The ACC could get a dose of it's own medicine if the B1G uses the methods that they the ACC used against the Big East. I don't know if it will happen in the next 2 months since they haven't even gotten Rutgers and Maryland officially in yet, but in the next few years I can certainly see that happening.

If it were to happen, it's far, far more likely to be at or near the expiration of the ACC's grant of media rights. At that time, all bets are off. I'd like to think that a tradition that by then will date close to 75 years will keep schools in the league, but I'm not naïve. The Big Ten will be making far more money and could probably name any school of its choice. But for the next dozen years or so, I think the membership lineup is secure.