Commissioner "Val"

[BillikensWin]

At some point, the presidents are going to have to get realistic about what it's going to take to make this league a success.

Gonzaga is a perfect institutional fit and a home run for league visibility and credibility. But some presidents don't want their Olympic sports to take one long road trip a year? Seriously? In actuality they wouldn't even be taking one trip a year in the sports you mention. But even if they did, what's the big deal? The true problem would be for Gonzaga, whose teams would have to travel long distances all the time. But the Gonzaga AD is already on record as saying that Gonzaga is all in. Only a president trying to prove he's an idiot would turn down this gift.

VCU is a perfect geographic fit. But that's not good enough either? Just amazing! Once again, instant upgrade in credibility and visibility. But the Big East can't tolerate even one public school. Sure, let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Instead, turn to 2 mediocre programs in the Midwest? Both St Louis and Dayton bring some positives, but neither are anywhere close to Gonzaga and VCU. They scream mid major. They would be great adds if the conference wants to go to 14, but not as #11 and #12. Not when Gonzaga and VCU are ready, willing, and able.

It's this kind of thinking that will kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The commissioner will earn her paycheck when/if she can lead the membership to the decisions they need to make for their own good.

Are you kidding? You leave out a very important part. If we add Gonzaga and they tank, which is a real possibility, then we are stuck with a west coast albatross around our necks. Then throw in the travel for our olympic sports, the real possibility they will bring little to no fans to MSG and also the fact that no other conference stretches as far as we would by choice. The Sun Belt stretches pretty far but that is out of pure survival. We are NOT that desperate. Fox would rather we add a TV market like St. Louis over Spokane. Then throw in the fact that SLU has won a tougher conference the last two years.

The downside for Gonzaga is huge compared to any of the other candidates. Thats a fact.

Not sure what makes that a fact. When the C7 announced the split Gonzaga's name was the biggest one out there for invitation by far. The travel distance was the only real issue not the location (Spokane). Even with that many BE fans still held out hope early that they would be part of the initial expansion. I don't get the what if they tank thing either. They've done as much or more over the past 15 years to build their brand as any program out there...UNC, UK, Duke, etc are not not walking through that door. Gonzaga joining the BE would be a bigger story than any other none major conference addition out there, VCU with Shake would likely be a huge story for the BE too. Any program the league adds will have some warts. But as Bill put it, travel distance is overrated & most of the other schools being discussed scream mid-major. The league needs for 11 & 12 to be viewed as impressive gets, not just mid-major consolidation efforts. That's what the oBE was basically doing for fball. I do think schools like SLU & Dayton can overcome that label with time & success but they are mid-majors through & through right now.

Btw the way I wouldn't poke fun at the state of Washington. Spokane is much more a hot spot right now than queens...just saying.

I like a lot of Seton Hall guys, but really? Seton Hall taking shots at Saint Louis? You have got to be kidding me.

[TheHall]

I like a lot of Seton Hall guys, but really? Seton Hall taking shots at Saint Louis? You have got to be kidding me.

Dont' take it so personal dude...It's not it's SHU's fault SLU is considered a mid-major. For the record I want Uconn & SLU as 11 & 12.

[NJRedman]

At some point, the presidents are going to have to get realistic about what it's going to take to make this league a success.

Gonzaga is a perfect institutional fit and a home run for league visibility and credibility. But some presidents don't want their Olympic sports to take one long road trip a year? Seriously? In actuality they wouldn't even be taking one trip a year in the sports you mention. But even if they did, what's the big deal? The true problem would be for Gonzaga, whose teams would have to travel long distances all the time. But the Gonzaga AD is already on record as saying that Gonzaga is all in. Only a president trying to prove he's an idiot would turn down this gift.

VCU is a perfect geographic fit. But that's not good enough either? Just amazing! Once again, instant upgrade in credibility and visibility. But the Big East can't tolerate even one public school. Sure, let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Instead, turn to 2 mediocre programs in the Midwest? Both St Louis and Dayton bring some positives, but neither are anywhere close to Gonzaga and VCU. They scream mid major. They would be great adds if the conference wants to go to 14, but not as #11 and #12. Not when Gonzaga and VCU are ready, willing, and able.

It's this kind of thinking that will kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The commissioner will earn her paycheck when/if she can lead the membership to the decisions they need to make for their own good.

Are you kidding? You leave out a very important part. If we add Gonzaga and they tank, which is a real possibility, then we are stuck with a west coast albatross around our necks. Then throw in the travel for our olympic sports, the real possibility they will bring little to no fans to MSG and also the fact that no other conference stretches as far as we would by choice. The Sun Belt stretches pretty far but that is out of pure survival. We are NOT that desperate. Fox would rather we add a TV market like St. Louis over Spokane. Then throw in the fact that SLU has won a tougher conference the last two years.

The downside for Gonzaga is huge compared to any of the other candidates. Thats a fact.

Not sure what makes that a fact. When the C7 announced the split Gonzaga's name was the biggest one out there for invitation by far. The travel distance was the only real issue not the location (Spokane). Even with that many BE fans still held out hope early that they would be part of the initial expansion. I don't get the what if they tank thing either. They've done as much or more over the past 15 years to build their brand as any program out there...UNC, UK, Duke, etc are not not walking through that door.

I think Gonzaga joining the BE would be a bigger story than any other non-major conference addition out there, VCU with Shake would likely be a huge story for the BE too. Any program the league adds will have some warts. But as Bill put it, travel distance is overrated & most of the other schools being discussed scream mid-major. The league needs for 11 & 12 to be viewed as impressive gets, not just mid-major consolidation efforts. That's what the oBE was basically doing for fball. I do think schools like SLU & Dayton can overcome that label with time & success but they are mid-majors through & through right now.

Btw the way I wouldn't poke fun at the state of Washington. Spokane is much more a hot spot right now than queens...just saying.

Gonzaga was talked about as a possible member for about a week before they were dismissed as not being realistic. It's not about the splash they would make, thats short term thinking. We need long term members, those who can compete every year and bring value even when they are down. Saying the travel isn't an issue shows a clear lack of understanding of what long flights actually feel like. Are you seriously saying that the Gonzaga BBall team wont be effected by flying to the mid-west/east coast for every away game? Also they haven't done anything in the NCAA tourny and have dominated a 1-2 bid league. The WCC pretty much plays in small gyms, not arenas like the Big East and other power conferences. Their success and reputation is based on playing inferior opponents. There is a definite possibility that they just can't hang in the Big East and along with the travel becomes a bottom feeder. What happens then?

Dayton and SLU has been playing in a much tougher conference and both have had similar if not better success than the Zags. If the Presidents wouldn't add them when they were the #1 overall seed no way they get an invite now or ever.

I'm sorry but WTF does that last sentence mean? Whats so hot about South Orange right now?

[NJRedman]

I like a lot of Seton Hall guys, but really? Seton Hall taking shots at Saint Louis? You have got to be kidding me.

Dont' take it so personal dude...It's not it's SHU's fault SLU is considered a mid-major. For the record I want Uconn & SLU as 11 & 12.

Seton Hall WISHES they were half as good as SLU has been the last few years. The only reason Seton Hall isn't considered a Mid-Major is because of their association with the actual successful members of the Big East.

[TheHall]

I like a lot of Seton Hall guys, but really? Seton Hall taking shots at Saint Louis? You have got to be kidding me.

Dont' take it so personal dude...It's not it's SHU's fault SLU is considered a mid-major. For the record I want Uconn & SLU as 11 & 12.

Seton Hall WISHES they were half as good as SLU has been the last few years. The only reason Seton Hall isn't considered a Mid-Major is because of their association with the actual successful members of the Big East.

Duh...what do you think separates mid majors from hi-majors.

[TheHall]

Gonzaga was talked about as a possible member for about a week before they were dismissed as not being realistic. It's not about the splash they would make, thats short term thinking. We need long term members, those who can compete every year and bring value even when they are down. Saying the travel isn't an issue shows a clear lack of understanding of what long flights actually feel like. Are you seriously saying that the Gonzaga BBall team wont be effected by flying to the mid-west/east coast for every away game? Also they haven't done anything in the NCAA tourny and have dominated a 1-2 bid league. The WCC pretty much plays in small gyms, not arenas like the Big East and other power conferences. Their success and reputation is based on playing inferior opponents. There is a definite possibility that they just can't hang in the Big East and along with the travel becomes a bottom feeder. What happens then?

Dayton and SLU has been playing in a much tougher conference and both have had similar if not better success than the Zags. If the Presidents wouldn't add them when they were the #1 overall seed no way they get an invite now or ever.

I'm sorry but WTF does that last sentence mean? Whats so hot about South Orange right now?

You like to mix in good points with lame name calling jabs...as if there really are right and wrong answers in this debate. Just look at SJU over the past 30 years. At times they have been as high as a high major can get at other times you guys couldn't get a major player in your own backyard. No program is always on top and good ones don't stay down forever. So take your shots at SHU now if you want, we'll be alright.

[Bill Marsh]

Are you kidding? You leave out a very important part. If we add Gonzaga and they tank, which is a real possibility, then we are stuck with a west coast albatross around our necks. Then throw in the travel for our olympic sports, the real possibility they will bring little to no fans to MSG and also the fact that no other conference stretches as far as we would by choice. The Sun Belt stretches pretty far but that is out of pure survival. We are NOT that desperate. Fox would rather we add a TV market like St. Louis over Spokane. Then throw in the fact that SLU has won a tougher conference the last two years.

The downside for Gonzaga is huge compared to any of the other candidates. Thats a fact.

Not sure what makes that a fact. When the C7 announced the split Gonzaga's name was the biggest one out there for invitation by far. The travel distance was the only real issue not the location (Spokane). Even with that many BE fans still held out hope early that they would be part of the initial expansion. I don't get the what if they tank thing either. They've done as much or more over the past 15 years to build their brand as any program out there...UNC, UK, Duke, etc are not not walking through that door.

I think Gonzaga joining the BE would be a bigger story than any other non-major conference addition out there, VCU with Shake would likely be a huge story for the BE too. Any program the league adds will have some warts. But as Bill put it, travel distance is overrated & most of the other schools being discussed scream mid-major. The league needs for 11 & 12 to be viewed as impressive gets, not just mid-major consolidation efforts. That's what the oBE was basically doing for fball. I do think schools like SLU & Dayton can overcome that label with time & success but they are mid-majors through & through right now.

Btw the way I wouldn't poke fun at the state of Washington. Spokane is much more a hot spot right now than queens...just saying.

Gonzaga was talked about as a possible member for about a week before they were dismissed as not being realistic. It's not about the splash they would make, thats short term thinking. We need long term members, those who can compete every year and bring value even when they are down. Saying the travel isn't an issue shows a clear lack of understanding of what long flights actually feel like. Are you seriously saying that the Gonzaga BBall team wont be effected by flying to the mid-west/east coast for every away game? Also they haven't done anything in the NCAA tourny and have dominated a 1-2 bid league. The WCC pretty much plays in small gyms, not arenas like the Big East and other power conferences. Their success and reputation is based on playing inferior opponents. There is a definite possibility that they just can't hang in the Big East and along with the travel becomes a bottom feeder. What happens then?

Dayton and SLU has been playing in a much tougher conference and both have had similar if not better success than the Zags. If the Presidents wouldn't add them when they were the #1 overall seed no way they get an invite now or ever.

1. No one out there is more of a sure thing as a competitive program than Gonzaga. They've made the tournament every year since 1999. Since then, they've gone to 5 Sweet 16's and an elite 8. They've won a total of 19tournament games in that run. You'd be hard pressed to find many teams that could match that record. Taking them would not be short term thinking in the slightest. They are as proven a program as there is out there.

2. As for bringing value, they sell out every home game. I'd say that kind of rabid fan base is very valuable. Not an albatross at all.

3. I actually agree with you on the effects of long travel. But it's really not a concern for teams that take one trip a year. It's an issue for Gonzaga. It's not up to you and me to make that decision. It's their call and they seem to be willing to take it on. Schools out west already have to travel a lot compared to what we're used to in the East, so the increase for them isn't as great as it appears since they're already far removed from everyone else in the conference and because their teams don't fly commercial.

4. Their success and reputation isn't based just on beating inferior opponents. I've already given their tournament resume, But they've also built up their OOC schedule to challenge themselves and have picked up impressive wins every year in addition to their conference titles. Here are some headline victories in recent years, many played in big arenas:

2013-14 - Arkansas, @West Virginia, BYU twice
2012-13 - West Virginia, Clemson, Oklahoma, Davidson, Kansas State, Baylor, @Oklahoma State, BYU twice
2011-12 - Notre Dame, Arizona, Butler, @Xavier, BYU twice, West Virginia
2010-11 - Marquette, Baylor, Xavier, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, St. John's
2009-10 - Colorado, Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Davidson, Oklahoma, @Illinois, @Memphis, Florida State

That's just a 5 year sample, but it should be enough to show that they're bearing big time programs annually. In addition to the road wins, a number each year were played before large crowds during in-season tournaments. I also included BYU even though they're a conference opponent because they're the exception to the other "high school gym" opponents in the WCC. Two wins a year means at least one win either in front of the 16,000 that BYU routinely packs in at its arena or before a conference tournament crowd.

5. St Louis and Dayton have NOT had "similar if not better success than the Zags." Not even close.

[robinreed]

The discussion concerning VCU and expansion is interesting and informative about our membership. However those who want the BE to remain a league exclusively composed of relatively small private Catholic universities may be basing their view on a belief that the big school football and small school basketball conflict in the former BE occurred because of a conflict between mostly public football schools and private basketball schools. In retrospect I believe many will agree that the conflict was a football/basketball first one not a private/public one. VCU does not have football and would be a perfect addition to the conference for many reasons. Gonzaga does fall short for geographic reasons but qualifies in all other respects.

I also believe Wichita State may prove a workable member. However some from our western schools seem to disagree. In any case I do not expect any expansion for a least two years. When it does occur I hope that the private/religious aspects will not be the primary ones included in the discussion. We are a diverse multicultural nation and I find it surprising that our members heavily recruit basketball players who are not Catholic or even religious but many want our member schools to be only private and religious.

By the way I attended Catholic schools from the first grade through college and did not attend a public university until grad school. I am not opposed to religious education only to the sometimes elite viewpoint which it occasionally engenders. The ACC has proven conclusively that a private/public conference can be a success. We should learn from the successful.

[BillikensWin]

I like a lot of Seton Hall guys, but really? Seton Hall taking shots at Saint Louis? You have got to be kidding me.

Dont' take it so personal dude...It's not it's SHU's fault SLU is considered a mid-major. For the record I want Uconn & SLU as 11 & 12.

Seton Hall WISHES they were half as good as SLU has been the last few years. The only reason Seton Hall isn't considered a Mid-Major is because of their association with the actual successful members of the Big East.

I get the reference, but that's a pretty heavy insult to be throwing around when the program being attacked is actually been pretty successful. SHU has a great class coming in, and best of luck to them.

[BEX]

MM label just used by laziest of media anymore. It is totally based on FB conferences. Relevant to BB? No. When some announcer uses it, I just figure the guy is ignorant.
Is UCF BB a "high Major" now cuz their FB team won a Bowl Game?