Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[ohiohsbball]

Apples to Oranges.


....and no they do not and nor is the A10 a threat. If anything, the two strengthen each other because we need to break the perception that only schools that play football can be called "major."[/quote]

I disagree. How is that apples to oranges? Oregon is on the West coast to strengthen an East coast football league. The same with Gonzaga to an East coast basketball league. The only difference I see is a sh!t tone of money for football with not so much for basketball. Granted the example was a little extreme, but the concept is the same.

As far as the A10, say what you want but yes it is a threat. I know it is only one year, and in the next five years may not be a threat at all, but right now yes it is. The A10 was represented quite well in the NCAA especially with Dayton in the elite 8. I want both leagues to do well, because I agree with you...I want non football leagues to be considered "major." My point is that if the BE wants to be the only elite basketball only conference, they need to squash the A10. In year one, that didn't happen and if the A10 has another year or two of more success, what happens if the "mothership", aka ESPN throws some money to the A10; they are already making a little bit of splash with the announcement of the deal they struck with the ACC. Not making a push for either league, just saying if the BE wants to be the major basketball only league, there is still work to do.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Gonzaga is a perfect institutional fit. They have one of the best college basketball programs in the country. However, location is just too much of a deterrent. If Gonzaga was located just a tad bit more West (say, Denver). They would have been added already, IMO. It's a tough sell to their Olympic teams and alumni.

The biggest wild-card in the whole realignment game is the fact that, while football drives the bus, which schools (if any) decide that they cannot (or will not) commit the mass amounts of money that is necessary to field a competitive football team. Hypothetically, could you imagine if a Duke University decided it did not want to fund their football program with the other growing ACC (and SEC and BIG-10 hopeful) schools? Or Wake Forest? UCONN may come to that realization at some point.

The Big East has time on their side. Saint Louis and Dayton will still be there for the picking in 5 years. But if any of those marquee universities suddenly becomes available, due to the demands of football, they immediately jump to the top of the list.

It may be a pipe dream, but I know for a fact that I never in my wildest dreams would see the day where we would see Maryland bolt to the BIG 10 (or A&M to the SEC, Colorado to the PAC-10, etc.). The 1st rule in realignment is that there are no rules.

[muskienick]

Unless there is a real chance of adding Notre Dame with Gonzaga to make twelve, I just can't see it. Trouble is, the Irish are already in what many see as arguably the best known Conference for college basketball in the nation. And to get out of their current membership in the ACC, they would likely have to back a Brink's truck up to the ND Treasurer's Office for the payoff.

Gonzaga moves the needle on the excitement meter for CBB fans. Only ND, among all the other possibilities in the eastern half of the Country (with the possible exception of UConn), excites CBB fans to the same (or greater) extent as a Gonzaga Big East membership would.

But if anybody is willing to hold one's breath until either of those latter two opt for Big East membership, I don't give them much chance for survival. ND already has the benefit of playing in the same Conference as Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, etc... And UConn's heavy investment in its FB program (along with the many dollars of income they are enjoying in past, current, and future NCAA units and departure penalties being paid by the C7) will keep them happy where they are presently for at least another 5 years +/-.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Fox Sports 1 & 2 would be silly to pay another 20% more for two additional teams UNLESS they were "needle-movers" like Gonzaga, ND, or UConn. But any combination of two of those three schools would bring the new version of the Big East much closer to its hey-day years of popularity.

On the other hand, any combination of two from among Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond, or VCU would simply bring us farther away from the original Big East and closer to the A-10.

[Michael in Raleigh]

Apples to Oranges.


....and no they do not and nor is the A10 a threat. If anything, the two strengthen each other because we need to break the perception that only schools that play football can be called "major."

I disagree. How is that apples to oranges? Oregon is on the West coast to strengthen an East coast football league. The same with Gonzaga to an East coast basketball league. The only difference I see is a sh!t tone of money for football with not so much for basketball. Granted the example was a little extreme, but the concept is the same.

As far as the A10, say what you want but yes it is a threat. I know it is only one year, and in the next five years may not be a threat at all, but right now yes it is. The A10 was represented quite well in the NCAA especially with Dayton in the elite 8. I want both leagues to do well, because I agree with you...I want non football leagues to be considered "major." My point is that if the BE wants to be the only elite basketball only conference, they need to squash the A10. In year one, that didn't happen and if the A10 has another year or two of more success, what happens if the "mothership", aka ESPN throws some money to the A10; they are already making a little bit of splash with the announcement of the deal they struck with the ACC. Not making a push for either league, just saying if the BE wants to be the major basketball only league, there is still work to do.[/quote]

The A-10 is not a threat to the Big East. It's vice versa. Every single member of the Atlantic 10 would join the Big East if it could because of the BE's far greater name recognition, its far greater TV package, its historic, renowned tournament at Madison Square Garden, and because of the association with college basketball household names.

I wouldn't worry so much about what the general public thinks. My perception is that most people think the BE is better. Those who don't are fickle. They'll be persuaded otherwise the second two BE teams make the Sweet 16 and the A-10 fails to make it out of the first weekend.

[Bill Marsh]

But, Bill, the trouble is that 10 other programs must make annual trips to Gonzaga also. And, as I have been reminded on this board, a school can't simply join another conference for basketball (like it can for football). It must join the new Conference in all the sports it sponsors that the joined Conference sponsors in League play. As I understand it, that means the volleyball, baseball, soccer, etc. teams must travel to Spokane as well. I can understand why not all 10 current AD's were jumping for joy at that prospect! (The $4 million of TV money would be gone in no time paying for transportation, lodging, meals, etc.)

The NCAA requirement is that a conference sponsor a minimum 6 teams for men and 6 teams for women, two of which must be team sports for each. That means that the lineup could look like this:

basketball
soccer
cross country
track & field
swimming
golf

Only basketball and soccer would have to make trips for a regular schedule of games. The other sports decide their conference championships at a tournament each year without having to play a regular schedule of competition. Dual meets and the like are scheduled on an individual basis.

The actual impact is very minimal. Two men's teams and two women's teams have to make the trip. If the schedule is broken up by divisions, the East coast schools would skip the trip once every 3 years and you'd still get an 18 game schedule. Do the other sports need to play an 18 game schedule? If any of the teams besides men's basketball can live with a 16 game schedule, which was the standard for decades, the East Coast schools could skip the Spokane trip once every other year. For the schools from the Midwest, this really isn't much different that the old Big East schools having to make a trip to Miami every year. (Chicago to Spokane is 1500 air miles.)

One trip a year max to Spokane for each of 4 teams is to much to handle? That's got to be a bad joke.

The Big East is absolutely bonkers if expansion doesn't include Gonzaga as priority #1 now that we know that Gonzaga is perfectly willing to take on the travel burden. Institutionally they're a perfect fit. They've just gone to their 16th consecutive NCAA tournament and have won 10 tournament games in the last 10 years. Among current Big East members, only Butler and Villanova has won more tournament games than that in the past decade.

The Big East should add Gonzaga and VCU and be done with it. They would strengthen the conference, upgrade its profile, and expand its markets. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Wow, quite a big F U to all baseball, lacrosse, tennis, volleyball, field hockey, and softball players and fans.

Nope.

It's not like they have to cancel those. It's just that Gonzaga doesn't have to participate in those other sports to meet the NCAA's core requirements

[flyerlax06]

The A-10 is not a threat to the Big East. It's vice versa. Every single member of the Atlantic 10 would join the Big East if it could because of the BE's far greater name recognition, its far greater TV package, its historic, renowned tournament at Madison Square Garden, and because of the association with college basketball household names.

I wouldn't worry so much about what the general public thinks. My perception is that most people think the BE is better. Those who don't are fickle. They'll be persuaded otherwise the second two BE teams make the Sweet 16 and the A-10 fails to make it out of the first weekend.

I agree with you 100%. Some A10 fans do not. Check out the comments section of this article I wrote. Some real interesting thinking.

http://pcbb1917.com/2014/04/02/first-season-in-the-books-how-did-the-big-east-do-2/

[BEX]

Dayton, GMU, Duquense, Fordham, Bono, Davidson? should get their own $500 million deal and stop bugging us on the BE board. Dayton went 6th in the A-10 playing these teams. Good thing they didn't face st. Joe's in the Dance.

ND and Gonzaga sound good.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Dayton, GMU, Duquense, Fordham, Bono, Davidson?

Davidson was a member of the Southern Conference in 2013-14.

Dayton went 6th in the A-10 playing these teams.

Dayton was the # 5 seed in the A10 tournament.

http://www.atlantic10.com/fls/31600/pdf ... M_ID=31600

Good thing they didn't face St. Joe's in the Dance.

You're probably right. Dayton went 0-3 vs. the Hawks this season, but the Flyers did beat Ohio State, Syracuse, and Stanford in the NCAA Tournament, which is much better than getting blown out by a # 12 seed in the play-in game.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ton-flyers

It is worth noting that both of Dayton's centers (6'-10", 250-lb Matt Kavanaugh and 6'-9", 250-lb Alex Gavrilovic) were out injured during Dayton's 4-game losing streak in January. The Flyers were a much better team when they returned. It is also worth nothing that Dayton beat Gonzaga 84-79 before Kavanagh and Gavrilovic suffered concussions.

ND and Gonzaga sound good.

Good luck with that.

[ohiohsbball]

Dayton, GMU, Duquense, Fordham, Bono, Davidson? should get their own $500 million deal and stop bugging us on the BE board. Dayton went 6th in the A-10 playing these teams. Good thing they didn't face st. Joe's in the Dance.

ND and Gonzaga sound good.

I love how you assume that anyone brings up anything about the A10 that they are Dayton fans. Classic. A previous poster stated on here on another message board that you are making Xavier fans look like idiots and this is more proof, which is sad because Xavier has a great fan base. Since you seem so quick to attack anyone that brings up any logical points, Dayton finished 5th in the league with a tiebreaker over Umass, not 6th. Xavier's final year in the A10 I believe they finished 6th or 7th.

As a fan of the BE, my point was simply the league needs to keep attacking to make sure it is an elite basketball only league and as long as the A10 enjoys success many outside the BE will question if the NBE is a legit "major" league. As a fan, I realize it is only one year, but to me to was very concerning that a team that finished 3rd in the BE, Xavier, was in a play in game and the tournament champion was an 11 seed. Furthermore, Creighton and Villanova who were the face of the league could not get past the round of 32. If that continues, and no one knows if it will, will all of that money from Fox be there ten years from now when the contract is up and Fox has expanded their viewership and programming? I am just saying the BE should be proactive and not reactive. By going after the A10, they make that league less desirable for ESPN games when you take teams like Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond, or VCU out of that conference. If that league is less desirable for ESPN, than you have more fan bases watching their teams on Fox. Again, all just my opinion and it will be interesting to see if it plays out. I know the round robin schedule is appealing to some coaches and fans, but I think staying at 10, especially if the league struggles in the NCAA and OOC, is really a dangerous move. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but as much as I would love to see schools like UConn, Gonzaga, and Notre Dame I really think that is a major pipe dream with a 0.0000001% chance of happening.

[aughnanure]

Apples to Oranges.


....and no they do not and nor is the A10 a threat. If anything, the two strengthen each other because we need to break the perception that only schools that play football can be called "major."

I disagree. How is that apples to oranges? Oregon is on the West coast to strengthen an East coast football league. The same with Gonzaga to an East coast basketball league. The only difference I see is a sh!t tone of money for football with not so much for basketball. Granted the example was a little extreme, but the concept is the same.

As far as the A10, say what you want but yes it is a threat. I know it is only one year, and in the next five years may not be a threat at all, but right now yes it is. The A10 was represented quite well in the NCAA especially with Dayton in the elite 8. I want both leagues to do well, because I agree with you...I want non football leagues to be considered "major." My point is that if the BE wants to be the only elite basketball only conference, they need to squash the A10. In year one, that didn't happen and if the A10 has another year or two of more success, what happens if the "mothership", aka ESPN throws some money to the A10; they are already making a little bit of splash with the announcement of the deal they struck with the ACC. Not making a push for either league, just saying if the BE wants to be the major basketball only league, there is still work to do.

It's Apples to Oranges because you're comparing a team leaving the most prominent conference in two timezones to a team in the freakin' WCC. The reason Gonzaga would even consider leaving is because of the WCC. Oregon leaving the Pac-12 for the SEC? What??

And seriously. What does a "threat" mean? There can only be one Highlander or something? Why can there not be more than 1 successful basketball-only conference? Where is that written? Oh yeah, its what you've been told by ESPN and football schools that want to keep us down and fighting for the scraps. Again, I think both strengthen each other. We need to stop using the phrases the football schools want us to (i.e., BCS, mid-major, P5).

Also, ESPN doesn't have the airspace to offer the A10 and therefore not much of a paycheck.