Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bill Marsh]

People are going to have to get used to this thread hanging around for a few years, because the Big East isn't expanding immediately.

Beyond that, I find it interesting that many fans react to certain outcomes so quickly and then jump to their conclusions about expansion: "abc just did that so xyz must do this now" appears to be their mantra. Things just don't get done that way at this level. I say good for the A10 for what they accomplished this season. As a Xavier fan, I will and should remain respectful and complementary of a conference that helped get Xavier to where it is today.

Yet we have A10 fans nipping at the Big East. That's human nature. When you feel you've been left behind or remain in a subordinated position, even when you've accomplished good results, you probably aren't going to remain in a good mood about it.

The problem I believe the A10 has is that it is having an anomaly year. The A10, with its composition and money, doubtfully will sustain bids at a 6-bid clip. The Big East, especially once Georgetown and Marquette and now even St. Johns comes back on line, will do fine in the bids department. Otherwise, we can if and but all day long about the BE getting 4 in barely. The fact remains that the BE got 4 in, and it did so in its first season.

It's funny to hear a Xavier fan say that expansion isn't imminent since it's the Xavier AD, Greg Christopher, who gave life to this thread with his public pronouncement last september that the Big East would in fact be expanding.

Do you know something XU Dash? Do you have Christopher's ear? is he leaking more info about expansion? Curious minds would love to know.

Bill, let's just say that I believe expansion probably will occur, but it won't occur after this season, and I doubt it will occur after next season. We all know there are a lot of factors involved that don't exactly make the decision to expand clean and easy, but we also know that #11 and #12 remain less than brutally obvious at this point. SLU? Still a very solid candidate on paper, regardless of its approaching personnel losses. VCU? Possibly a no-brainer, except that no one will provide even a smidgen of indication on the public versus private thing.

I'll simply reiterate what we know: the Fox deal is done. The MSG deal is done. The Presidents and Ackerman have to be fairly pleased with how the BE Tournament turned out, as well as with 4 bids plus 2 NIT participants. They know they have time. They believe something else may break with respect to realignment, as driven by football motives. The Presidents have the LUXURY of being able to wait. I believe it's safe to say they'll wait. I'm not saying they'll do that forever, but I'm saying that expansion most likely is 2 to 3 years off from the conclusion of this season.

Okay.

Personally, I don't see the need for expansion. Apparently Fox does. So, if Fox is the driver and the issues that have led Fox to believe that expansion is necessary exist now, why would Fox want to wait 2 or 3 years or more?

I don't know who's out there, someone who is not a football school, who would suddenly shake loose due to realignment if we wait 2 or 3 years. I would think that all of the potential players are known now.

[ruechalgrin]

ESPN Research ‏@ESPNResearch 9h
Top-rated ESPN college hoops markets this season: Louisville, Greensboro, KC, Raleigh-Durham, Memphis, Columbus, Cincy, Knoxville, Dayton

Only want to point out 3 things on the ESPN research tweeted today.

(1) Cincinnati and Dayton are distinct and separate television markets. I keep hearing on this thread they are the same market, just not the case. Although I live on the West Coast now, I think the X fans will attest that they are different markets.

(2) Dayton is #64 and Richmond is #58 in tv market size, but Dayton has a higher percentage of viewers watching college b-ball so more tv sets for Fox1 watching college basketball in Dayton (could give you the details, but this has been the case for years now). But yes both markets are small, no question about it -- (Spokane at #75 and St. Louis at #21). http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets3C

(3) Right now, BE has #1 NY, #3 Chicago, #4 Philly, #9 DC, #25 Indy, #34 Cincy, #35 Milwaukee, #52 Providence, #78 Omaha = overall wow!

[Xudash]

Bill, if you absolutely know that Fox believes there is a need for the Big East to expand, then I suspect you know more than we all know.

Otherwise, the reason why Fox would be willing to wait another 2 to 3 years is reflected in this thread: pages upon pages of conjecture without a definitive line of thinking. Were VCU private and Gonzaga located in Fairfield, CT instead of Fairfield, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Beyond that, the reason it may go to multiple years without expansion is because the Presidents are not convinced that all the potential players are known at this point. That idea can be debated, but it may be how they feel; they've stated as much publicly.

Fox signed up for what, 12 to 13 years? A few years doesn't mean that much in the scheme of such a long-term contract. And some here place way too much emphasis on the Big East absolutely having to leap tall buildings in a single bound right out of the gate. I doubt Fox has such an expectation. Sure, Fox wants the Big East to be successful as soon as possible, but Fox has deep pockets and a long-term view for this gig, and they also know that the Big East is but one of a number of portfolio assets they're building for their broadcast sports channels.

Knowing that they can add, but not easily subtract is a reasonably good motivator for not pulling the trigger too quickly when the targets aren't blatantly attractive. Attractive is one thing, but blatantly attractive probably is the benchmark when $500 million is involved.

BTW, I also don't want the Big East to expand. It's a fluid situation, so maybe they ultimately decide against it if further realignment doesn't open up something they may otherwise be targeting.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The league waiting on any additions is probably for the best. Allow the Catholic 7 and the 3 original additions to grow together and develop strong rivalries and build the league.

[RRR]

Talking with VCU and Richmond fans there is a feeling that they would like one of the two to get invited to the BE so that they are not competing in the same league. Only negative for VCU if it is one is the public vs private school. Other than that they would be a nice addition.

I think actually both UR and VCU fans think the exact opposite. Neither really wants the other to get into the Big East. If UR does not get in, the Spider fans would rather be in an A10 with VCU, instead of having them in the Big East, and the same goes in the opposite way for Ram fans. If neither Richmond nor VCU gets invited to the Big East, being in an A10 with each other, George Washington, George Mason, and Davidson is not a bad thing for either school at all. Sure the money would be very very nice, and the Big East has some great schools to be affiliated with, but having close rivals in your conference is a good thing, and the A10 certainly has proven it can put multiple teams into the NCAA's.

VCU fans don't mind going to the Big East without Richmond. Sure its a local rival but our games are always heated even when OOC. We gave up our vicious rivalry with odu for the A10. Richmond wouldn't be enough to make VCU stay if we got a invite and wanted to go.

----

Sidenote I know its been mentioned but yes there was thousands of VCU fans. Oh the stories about the dancing on table stuff is true (I have videos of it on my cell phone that I need to get off). The German Beer hall is nuts. VCU fans know how to party up there. If fan amount strictly determined championships we'd won the last two A10 titles. We outnumbered the other team by a ridiculous margin. I was there both times. It's like Siegel Center moved north. The Havoc Lives here banner even travels.

[Bill Marsh]

Bill, if you absolutely know that Fox believes there is a need for the Big East to expand, then I suspect you know more than we all know.

Otherwise, the reason why Fox would be willing to wait another 2 to 3 years is reflected in this thread: pages upon pages of conjecture without a definitive line of thinking. Were VCU private and Gonzaga located in Fairfield, CT instead of Fairfield, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Beyond that, the reason it may go to multiple years without expansion is because the Presidents are not convinced that all the potential players are known at this point. That idea can be debated, but it may be how they feel; they've stated as much publicly.

Fox signed up for what, 12 to 13 years? A few years doesn't mean that much in the scheme of such a long-term contract. And some here place way too much emphasis on the Big East absolutely having to leap tall buildings in a single bound right out of the gate. I doubt Fox has such an expectation. Sure, Fox wants the Big East to be successful as soon as possible, but Fox has deep pockets and a long-term view for this gig, and they also know that the Big East is but one of a number of portfolio assets they're building for their broadcast sports channels.

Knowing that they can add, but not easily subtract is a reasonably good motivator for not pulling the trigger too quickly when the targets aren't blatantly attractive. Attractive is one thing, but blatantly attractive probably is the benchmark when $500 million is involved.

BTW, I also don't want the Big East to expand. It's a fluid situation, so maybe they ultimately decide against it if further realignment doesn't open up something they may otherwise be targeting.

Thanks, Dash. I appreciate hearing your POV.

[ruechalgrin]

Bill, if you absolutely know that Fox believes there is a need for the Big East to expand, then I suspect you know more than we all know.

Otherwise, the reason why Fox would be willing to wait another 2 to 3 years is reflected in this thread: pages upon pages of conjecture without a definitive line of thinking. Were VCU private and Gonzaga located in Fairfield, CT instead of Fairfield, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Beyond that, the reason it may go to multiple years without expansion is because the Presidents are not convinced that all the potential players are known at this point. That idea can be debated, but it may be how they feel; they've stated as much publicly.

Fox signed up for what, 12 to 13 years? A few years doesn't mean that much in the scheme of such a long-term contract. And some here place way too much emphasis on the Big East absolutely having to leap tall buildings in a single bound right out of the gate. I doubt Fox has such an expectation. Sure, Fox wants the Big East to be successful as soon as possible, but Fox has deep pockets and a long-term view for this gig, and they also know that the Big East is but one of a number of portfolio assets they're building for their broadcast sports channels.

Knowing that they can add, but not easily subtract is a reasonably good motivator for not pulling the trigger too quickly when the targets aren't blatantly attractive. Attractive is one thing, but blatantly attractive probably is the benchmark when $500 million is involved.

BTW, I also don't want the Big East to expand. It's a fluid situation, so maybe they ultimately decide against it if further realignment doesn't open up something they may otherwise be targeting.

BE will be great over the long-haul and Fox has invested for 10+ years. If you are having the same conversation about disappointment at year 5, then things might change. But 1 year is way too small of a sample size. TV markets are great, fox sports will get its brand out, and 2013-2014 will likely turn out to be one of the down years for the BE.

Everybody worries about the sky falling too much on this board. The BE will be great (probably not as great as the early 1980s, but that is a really high bar).

[Bostonspider]

I think actually both UR and VCU fans think the exact opposite. Neither really wants the other to get into the Big East.

VCU fans don't mind going to the Big East without Richmond. Sure its a local rival but our games are always heated even when OOC. We gave up our vicious rivalry with odu for the A10. Richmond wouldn't be enough to make VCU stay if we got a invite and wanted to go.

No I meant, that if VCU can't get into the Big East, I don't think there are any Ram fans that want to see Richmond in the Big East without VCU. If your school can't get in, you don't want to see the rival school get in. Of course either of our fan bases would like to see our own school in the conference. But if VCU is "stuck" in the A10, don't you want to be stuck with Richmond?

[Gopher+RamFan]

Ratings in Richmond for the VCU game Saturday:

12 share (21% of Richmond).

This beat out NASCAR (Fox) and NHL (NBC), combined. It also barely beat/equalled the share of ESPN and CW's showing of the Virginia/Duke ACC Championship game. People will pay, and watch, for VCU on FS1. Virginia doesn't always have to be ACC country.

http://wtvr.com/2014/03/17/vcu-basketball-ratings/

[RRR]

I think actually both UR and VCU fans think the exact opposite. Neither really wants the other to get into the Big East.

VCU fans don't mind going to the Big East without Richmond. Sure its a local rival but our games are always heated even when OOC. We gave up our vicious rivalry with odu for the A10. Richmond wouldn't be enough to make VCU stay if we got a invite and wanted to go.

No I meant, that if VCU can't get into the Big East, I don't think there are any Ram fans that want to see Richmond in the Big East without VCU. If your school can't get in, you don't want to see the rival school get in. Of course either of our fan bases would like to see our own school in the conference. But if VCU is "stuck" in the A10, don't you want to be stuck with Richmond?

True. I wouldn't want Richmond going to Big East if we didn't a invite. Not that I think that would affect how the rivalry plays out. VCU Richmond have been a part of different conferences a lot and it hasn't had any effect on VCU's dominance in the rivalry. Such as U of R in the A10 while VCU was in the CAA. U of R going the Big East doesn't mean you will bring in better recruits than us. Things such as fan support, coaching,etc play a big part of that.

I dare say VCU fans aren't that worried about Richmond as far as the Big East. Richmond has yet to prove they can get the fan support that the Big East would want. They shrunk the arena from 9100 seats to 7200 yet still brought about 3,000 fans most nights. Not exactly a big confidence booster for the Big East. Richmond just dropped millions on the renovation and fans still don't show up. On the other hand VCU has sold out 50+ straight games going back to the 2010. Plus they've shown major commitment to the program with the state of the art practice facility being built. One of the hot button topics for Fox was attendance so Richmond will definitely lose in that battle.

Plus it makes no sense to go with Richmond if they want the Richmond market. It's not even close who gets the attention here. Could be that VCU sits in the city itself but the fact is they dominate the city's media and definitely take advantage of it. Only game Richmond fans seem to get up for is VCU. When they played GWU(close geographical rival) they had one of their lowest attendances of the year I believe. Just a few short years ago Spider fans were talking about how they were becoming a football school because they didn't care as much VCU fans about winning the basketball game. I think the comments were something along the lines of our fans act like they would slit their wrists if they loss to U of R referring to how serious we take those games.