Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[adoraz11]

We didn't get lucky this year. We earned it. and we didn't have two top 50 RPI teams 2 weeks ago, we had 3.

I agree that the problem won't just go away on its own, but the conference members have recruited 17 of the top 100 recruits for next year. That's what will keep the conference competitive, a continuing influx of talent.

If the conference is going to expand, I agree that it should be smart about it. Expansion decisions should begin with VCU, which is the most solid available program out there. Adding any combination of St Louis, Dayton, and Richmond will likely water down the competitive level of the conference. That would be very bad because conference SOS is one thing that kept so many teams with competitive RPI rankings right down to the wire.

Adding St. louis and Dayton would both raise the RPI of the big east. As both were ranked higher than all but two Big east schools. Forget VCU - the powers that be are not going for a public school.

This year. I don't know about Dayton, but I expect SLU to be nowhere near the RPI next year with everyone leaving and a mediocre recruiting class. Last thing we need right now.

[DudeAnon]

SLU and VCU, but Shaka has to sign a blood pact stay coach at VCU.

[Bill Marsh]

We didn't get lucky this year. We earned it. and we didn't have two top 50 RPI teams 2 weeks ago, we had 3.

I agree that the problem won't just go away on its own, but the conference members have recruited 17 of the top 100 recruits for next year. That's what will keep the conference competitive, a continuing influx of talent.

If the conference is going to expand, I agree that it should be smart about it. Expansion decisions should begin with VCU, which is the most solid available program out there. Adding any combination of St Louis, Dayton, and Richmond will likely water down the competitive level of the conference. That would be very bad because conference SOS is one thing that kept so many teams with competitive RPI rankings right down to the wire.

Adding St. louis and Dayton would both raise the RPI of the big east. As both were ranked higher than all but two Big east schools. Forget VCU - the powers that be are not going for a public school.

It would have raised the RPI this year, but that's not going to be of any help next year. Both teams are heavily built around seniors this year. St Louis is graduating 5 of their top 6 players and Dayton is graduating 3 of their top 6. Neither program is bringing in any significant recruits.

I have no idea what the powers that be want. they haven't been talking publicly, but I'm sure that Fox could care less if one of the members is a public school. And that public school is the only school in the A10 that is signing major recruits, bringing in 4 of the top 150 for next year while they return 4 of their top 6 players from this year.

[Bill Marsh]

And the reason we are playing out these "what if"/"supposed to" outcomes is they are very real possibilities next year if we don't expand. The problem does not magically go away just because we got lucky this year. Two weeks ago we had two top 50 rpi teams. That's the problem with a conference of only ten teams with few heavy weights and a bunch of bubbles.

In fact, I'd say there's not one team in this conference you can count on making it any given year. There's no Duke or Kansas.

We didn't get lucky this year. We earned it. and we didn't have two top 50 RPI teams 2 weeks ago, we had 3.

I agree that the problem won't just go away on its own, but the conference members have recruited 17 of the top 100 recruits for next year. That's what will keep the conference competitive, a continuing influx of talent.

If the conference is going to expand, I agree that it should be smart about it. Expansion decisions should begin with VCU, which is the most solid available program out there. Adding any combination of St Louis, Dayton, and Richmond will likely water down the competitive level of the conference. That would be very bad because conference SOS is one thing that kept so many teams with competitive RPI rankings right down to the wire.

You make some good points. I'm just uncomfortable with the fact we went into the conference tournament knowing we may have came out with 2 bids, IMO likely 3. Regardless of what should have happened, luck, whatever, 2 or 3 was still a real possibility last weekend of the season. That should be unacceptable going forward. And yes AAC got screwed much worse than we did.

And I'm with you on VCU being added. They will be a top 25 program next year. Can't say the same for any other realistic candidate.

I completely understand your anxiety. A lot of nail biting right down to the end.

Just trying to accentuate the positive. I think that there's enough of a track record with this conference to be optimistic. We're not the ACC, but no one is. But otherwise, the track record is as strong as anyone's except that it's been a long while since anyone here won a national title. That needs to be corrected soon. I'm putting my money on Providence taking care of that this year.

[adoraz11]

yeah true just hard for me to be optimistic with St. John's being eliminated haha. You're right we have a lot to look forward to. Just so frustrating seeing a team that is exactly what we need in in many regards- the fans, the exposure, the skill, not in this conference.

I'll be rooting hard for all BE teams, and VCU.

[Bill Marsh]

yeah true just hard for me to be optimistic with St. John's being eliminated haha. You're right we have a lot to look forward to. Just so frustrating seeing a team that is exactly what we need in in many regards- the fans, the exposure, the skill, not in this conference.

I'll be rooting hard for all BE teams, and VCU.

Sorry, I forgot that you are a St. John's fan.

Here's how dumb I am? I picked St. John's to win the big East tournament, not Providence. I still think that St. John's is on the verge of something special. I know that a lot of SJU fans are down on Lavin, but I think he's been a lot better than his last couple of predecessors. Everyone who mattered to their great stretch run (11-4) is back. They played Providence tough in the tournament and I think people are now beginning to realize just how good PC is. they also played Creighton and Villanova tough in road losses, either of which they could have won. I hope they do well in the NIT because that's just what they could use to get them looking forward to next year with a positive outlook.

[adoraz11]

yeah true just hard for me to be optimistic with St. John's being eliminated haha. You're right we have a lot to look forward to. Just so frustrating seeing a team that is exactly what we need in in many regards- the fans, the exposure, the skill, not in this conference.

I'll be rooting hard for all BE teams, and VCU.

Sorry, I forgot that you are a St. John's fan.

Here's how dumb I am? I picked St. John's to win the big East tournament, not Providence. I still think that St. John's is on the verge of something special. I know that a lot of SJU fans are down on Lavin, but I think he's been a lot better than his last couple of predecessors. Everyone who mattered to their great stretch run (11-4) is back. They played Providence tough in the tournament and I think people are now beginning to realize just how good PC is. they also played Creighton and Villanova tough in road losses, either of which they could have won. I hope they do well in the NIT because that's just what they could use to get them looking forward to next year with a positive outlook.

Thanks, if BE has a respectable showing and SJU returns everyone next year (aside the seniors obviously), I'll feel pretty content and excited about next year. There's rumblings of some players transferring or thinking about the NBA (even though nobody would go first round). Just need to hope everyone returns and we'll be more than solid next year. Providence is a great team and wanted it more, would love to see them beat UNC.

[Bill Marsh]

yeah true just hard for me to be optimistic with St. John's being eliminated haha. You're right we have a lot to look forward to. Just so frustrating seeing a team that is exactly what we need in in many regards- the fans, the exposure, the skill, not in this conference.

I'll be rooting hard for all BE teams, and VCU.

Sorry, I forgot that you are a St. John's fan.

Here's how dumb I am? I picked St. John's to win the big East tournament, not Providence. I still think that St. John's is on the verge of something special. I know that a lot of SJU fans are down on Lavin, but I think he's been a lot better than his last couple of predecessors. Everyone who mattered to their great stretch run (11-4) is back. They played Providence tough in the tournament and I think people are now beginning to realize just how good PC is. they also played Creighton and Villanova tough in road losses, either of which they could have won. I hope they do well in the NIT because that's just what they could use to get them looking forward to next year with a positive outlook.

Thanks, if BE has a respectable showing and SJU returns everyone next year (aside the seniors obviously), I'll feel pretty content and excited about next year. There's rumblings of some players transferring or thinking about the NBA (even though nobody would go first round). Just need to hope everyone returns and we'll be more than solid next year. Providence is a great team and wanted it more, would love to see them beat UNC.

I expect they will beat the Tar Heels. This year's version is flawed. Can't hit free throws (63%), has only 1 shooter who can hit 3's, and is inconsistent from game to game.

[Xudash]

People are going to have to get used to this thread hanging around for a few years, because the Big East isn't expanding immediately.

Beyond that, I find it interesting that many fans react to certain outcomes so quickly and then jump to their conclusions about expansion: "abc just did that so xyz must do this now" appears to be their mantra. Things just don't get done that way at this level. I say good for the A10 for what they accomplished this season. As a Xavier fan, I will and should remain respectful and complementary of a conference that helped get Xavier to where it is today.

Yet we have A10 fans nipping at the Big East. That's human nature. When you feel you've been left behind or remain in a subordinated position, even when you've accomplished good results, you probably aren't going to remain in a good mood about it.

The problem I believe the A10 has is that it is having an anomaly year. The A10, with its composition and money, doubtfully will sustain bids at a 6-bid clip. The Big East, especially once Georgetown and Marquette and now even St. Johns comes back on line, will do fine in the bids department. Otherwise, we can if and but all day long about the BE getting 4 in barely. The fact remains that the BE got 4 in, and it did so in its first season.

It's funny to hear a Xavier fan say that expansion isn't imminent since it's the Xavier AD, Greg Christopher, who gave life to this thread with his public pronouncement last september that the Big East would in fact be expanding.

Do you know something XU Dash? Do you have Christopher's ear? is he leaking more info about expansion? Curious minds would love to know.

Bill, let's just say that I believe expansion probably will occur, but it won't occur after this season, and I doubt it will occur after next season. We all know there are a lot of factors involved that don't exactly make the decision to expand clean and easy, but we also know that #11 and #12 remain less than brutally obvious at this point. SLU? Still a very solid candidate on paper, regardless of its approaching personnel losses. VCU? Possibly a no-brainer, except that no one will provide even a smidgen of indication on the public versus private thing.

I'll simply reiterate what we know: the Fox deal is done. The MSG deal is done. The Presidents and Ackerman have to be fairly pleased with how the BE Tournament turned out, as well as with 4 bids plus 2 NIT participants. They know they have time. They believe something else may break with respect to realignment, as driven by football motives. The Presidents have the LUXURY of being able to wait. I believe it's safe to say they'll wait. I'm not saying they'll do that forever, but I'm saying that expansion most likely is 2 to 3 years off from the conclusion of this season.

[adoraz11]

I'll also add I think having a big school or two would be a great thing. Let's face it, although we dislike schools like Uconn and Cuse a lot, there were few things better during the season than beating them and their obnoxious fans. Rooting against these schools with huge alumni bases and a few championships is more satisfying than rooting against an underdog school like Providence.

I like every school in this league. I want everyone to succeed. From a rivalry perspective that's not necessarily a good thing. None on our current teams have recently won the tournament or even gotten to the finals, besides Butler who is an ultimate underdog. Even during the Big East tournament, I found myself being okay with losing to Providence if it meant they'd be getting into the tournament. I'd never feel that way about a school like Uconn or Syracuse.

Currently Georgetown is the best example of a school like this, but even they failed to do much this year and are coming off a first round loss in the tournament last year.

We don't want to be looking at BCS schools so VCU seems like the best one for this reason. Especially since they travel well. Hell, even Dayton travelling well could help. We've seen so much of the Dayton-Xavier rivalry in this thread and that'd be a good thing for us. Need some more hate in this league there's too many small teams. Love them or hate them, what's the MLB without the Yankees?

I honestly feel the Catholic presidents are scared of a big school like VCU coming, running things, and bolting to a bigger conference in ten years. That's a losing mentality.