Seed Watch

[Bill Marsh]

If a team goes undefeated (something which happens so infrequently), they deserve #1 seed---even if they are not one of the four best teams.

I also think Nova deserves a #1 right now, ahead of Kansas. Both have a high SOS but Nova has lost much fewer games that KU. Things are subject to change, depending on conference tourneys, however.

Even if they are not one of the four best teams? Hmm . . .

So, they should suspend the procedures that they follow with every other team.

A team goes out an plays almost nobody all year long. We have a seeding system that allows us to compensate for that by making sure that they meet some teams that can challenge them earlier in the tournament. So, what do we do? Give them a seed that will guarantee that they get to play more nobodies in the first couple of rounds. Great! What a system.

[RDinNY]

Bill, they've played a competitive enough schedule that they deserve the number one. If their schedule was total crap, they would not be ranked. They are the #2 team in the country. Their "weak" schedule should not keep them from a 1 seed

[XUFan09]

WSU's expected non-conference SOS is 31, and they went undefeated against that slate. They played a tough schedule, including five games out of twelve on the road. In the process, they won the following games:

@Tulsa (#94) - People are going to protest this, but you have to consider the weight the Selection Committee gives to road games. Beating an RPI 76-100 team on the road is the equivalent of beating an RPI 26-50 team on a neutral court in the Committee's eyes.
BYU (#33) [Neutral]
@SLU (#18) - This is a ridiculously good win, like beating a top 5 team on a neutral court.
Tennessee (#44) - This is an okay win, because the same conversion factor that applies for making road wins better also makes home wins weaker. You can basically flip it with the Tulsa win.

Overall, Wichita State challenged themselves, yet still they beat everyone they faced. They can't help the conference they have to play in for the other 18 games of the regular season (though a road win over Indiana State is excellent and a road win over Missouri State is good). Their computer numbers, which were once weaker, are stronger now: Kenpom #4 and Sagarin #12.

[Bill Marsh]

WSU's expected non-conference SOS is 31, and they went undefeated against that slate. They played a tough schedule, including five games out of twelve on the road. In the process, they won the following games:

@Tulsa (#94) - People are going to protest this, but you have to consider the weight the Selection Committee gives to road games. Beating an RPI 76-100 team on the road is the equivalent of beating an RPI 26-50 team on a neutral court in the Committee's eyes.
BYU (#33) [Neutral]
@SLU (#18) - This is a ridiculously good win, like beating a top 5 team on a neutral court.
Tennessee (#44) - This is an okay win, because the same conversion factor that applies for making road wins better also makes home wins weaker. You can basically flip it with the Tulsa win.

Overall, Wichita State challenged themselves, yet still they beat everyone they faced. They can't help the conference they have to play in for the other 18 games of the regular season (though a road win over Indiana State is excellent and a road win over Missouri State is good). Their computer numbers, which were once weaker, are stronger now: Kenpom #4 and Sagarin #12.

That's it? only 4? And one of them a 94?

I don't understand the love for Wichita State. Seeding them a 2 or a 3 isn't denying them anything. They're still going to the tournament. They're still getting a very high seed. It's just making them play a 14 or a 15 in the opening round instead of a 16 and then potentially a 6 or a 7 instead of an 8. Making them play teams that are a little bit tougher is the whole point of seeding so that teams who haven't had success against the same level of competition as others during the regular season will prove themselves in the tournament. What's wrong with that in the case of a team who's SOS is 102? Once teams get to the Sweet 16, seeding doesn't matter because every team at that point is a tough draw.

[RDinNY]

It has been 23 years since a team has gone undefeated. They are ranked #2 in the country. They derve to be a 1 seed.

[HoosierPal]

It has been 23 years since a team has gone undefeated. They are ranked #2 in the country. They derve to be a 1 seed.

You are 100% correct. Going undefeated is not easy, no matter if you play in a Rec league or the NCAA. And, for those of you how haven't watched Wichita State, they are GOOD. Early, Baker, VanVleet and Cotton could get serious minutes on any team in the NCAA. I dare say they are as good as last year's team that went to the Final Four. They deserve their #1 seed.

[redmen9194]

If Wichita State was a crappy undefeated team then they should not get the number 1 seed. But they are currently ranked number two in the nation. So at this point they are considered by a large segment to be one of the top four teams in the country. If they were undefeated and ranked 15, they should not get the number one seed. Looking at the whole picture they deserve to get it.

[TrueBlueJay]

Bill, you are way off base on this one. WSU, a team I have hated since the 70's, deserves the #1 seed. They have beaten every team they have played, and they scheduled as well as they can. If you don't like their schedule have your team call them up and play them, I'm sure they would oblige. Having lived the life of the mid-major I think they had a decent non-conference with St. Louis, Tenn, Alabama, Tulsa & BYU. Is it the best? Nope. Can they get good major conference teams to schedule them? Not really.

As others have said, they are a good basketball team and totally deserve a #1 seed. Will they be one of the weaker #1 seeds in recent history? Possibly. Doesn't mean they don't deserve that spot.

[GumbyDamnit!]

#5 RPI. Undefeated. If they are not a 1 seed make a case for another team that should be? Turn the coin that says they haven't beaten enough good teams and look at the fact that they haven't lost to any bad or average teams either.

Wisc.? - lost to Northwestern 100+ RPI team.
Syr? - lost to GT and BC, both teams that are comparable to MVC teams.
Duke? - lost to ND & Wake. Both are not good teams.
Kansas? - they have 8 losses for God's sake; should we just reward a tough schedule or require a team to win as many games as possible?

Nova? - lost to 2 top 10 RPI only; OK so I admit they should be a #1 ahead of WSU

But at the end of the day none of these other teams can make that much of a better argument than WSU. It would be different if someone like Duke only lost to Kansas, Syr and UVA. But they lost to teams that they should have beaten. WSU did not lose to teams they should have beaten--plain and simple. Tell us who you think should be a #1 in front of them.

[OutlawWales]

#5 RPI. Undefeated. If they are not a 1 seed make a case for another team that should be? Turn the coin that says they haven't beaten enough good teams and look at the fact that they haven't lost to any bad or average teams either.

Wisc.? - lost to Northwestern 100+ RPI team.
Syr? - lost to GT and BC, both teams that are comparable to MVC teams.
Duke? - lost to ND & Wake. Both are not good teams.
Kansas? - they have 8 losses for God's sake; should we just reward a tough schedule or require a team to win as many games as possible?

Nova? - lost to 2 top 10 RPI only; OK so I admit they should be a #1 ahead of WSU

But at the end of the day none of these other teams can make that much of a better argument than WSU. It would be different if someone like Duke only lost to Kansas, Syr and UVA. But they lost to teams that they should have beaten. WSU did not lose to teams they should have beaten--plain and simple. Tell us who you think should be a #1 in front of them.

This. This is why they are as close to a lock as you could possibly be.

I absolutely despise and loath everything about Wichita Community College. But the key to me is that they did not lose a single game they were supposed to win this year. None of our teams can say that. We ALL lost games to teams we were supposed to beat. And they played at least a handful of teams that were good enough to win if Wichita didn't get the job done. Even the horrible teams in the Valley can be tough -- it can be tough to win in front of a completely empty gym in Terra Haute or Evansville. Believe me -- as a Creighton fan, running the table in the Valley is difficult, no matter how bad some of those teams are. Every single year some of those bottom dwelling teams catch lightning in a bottle and knock of the top teams in the league --except this year.

For me the silver lining is hoping that they become the first #1 seed in history to lose to a #16 seed.