If Wichita St. runs the table, do they deserve a #1 seed?

[GumbyDamnit!]

Being undefeated and a mid-major #1 seed seems like an awful lot of pressure to me. How do they respond when down double digits in the 2nd half? Do they feel like they are representing mid-majors everywhere and start getting a little tight?

Don't bait me Gumby! That is exactly why Mid-Majors love to play BCS football schools.

I'm not baiting anyone. Is it the term "mid-major" that has your panties in a bunch? Some may see that term and think it holds a connotation of being less than a BCS school. I do not. It is simply a term for the type of league that one is in. The MVC is not the B1G. Saying that Wich St is better than Iowa, or Mich St, Wisc., is fine and is a reasonable debate. But the MVC is just not a league that can compare top to bottom. I don't think any Jays fan would reasonably conclude any different now that they are in a league with 9 other quality programs, right?

My point that must have been missed... Many "mid-majors" use that designation as fuel. They surely feel like they have been judged to be less than the BCS schools. They are motivated to prove that they belong with the big boys. Heck, I have heard as much from Jays fans (and Butler and XU fans) trying to justify that they belonged in the discussion for the BET title at the start of this season. So what happens when all of a sudden, instead of being an underestimated #6 seed you are rewarded with a #1 seed. The hunter becomes the hunted and the spotlight and target is on your back. You can no longer fly under the radar--a role that you thrive on. Kentucky, Fl, Kansas, Syr and Mich St are used to that top seed role. Last year Gonzaga as a mid major #1 didn't get out of the 1st weekend. This will be uncharted territory for WSU, so is it safe to assume that they may feel a little pressure to validate that #1 seed? Compound that with being undefeated. That too carries a weight. Is it outlandish and off the mark for me to suggest that the two things might cause the Shocker players to tighten a bit?

[stever20]

If the Shockers go 34-0 they deserve a number 1 seed, St. Joe's had a similar season and got rewarded with a #1. With that said, I agree with whoever said earlier in the thread, that while they may get a #1 seed they aren't one of the top 4 teams in the country, IMO. I think WSU is going to find the tournament much more difficult this year and it has nothing to do with their draw, this year they will have a big old target on their back. They won't be flying under the radar as some 8 or 9 seed this year, no one is going to be sleeping on them.

Sorry, but they will not deserve a #1 seed. The only thing that their season has in common with that St. Joe's team is that both have undefeated regular seasons. Even after their loss in the A10 tournament and their loss in the Elite 8, St. Joe's still had an RPI of #3 and their SOS was 46th. Their A10 schedule included Xavier, a team that went to the Elite 8 that year.

Wichita State currently has an RPI of #7 and a SOS of #90. Even with an undefeated season their SOS is expected to drop further to #104 due to the weakness of the remaining MVC teams on their schedule.

Big difference between giving a #1 seed to a team with a top 50 SOS and one that isn't even in the top 100.

If they are 34-0 according to RPI forecast, their RPI will be #4.

Bottom line, if they are 34-0, they will be a #1 seed. End of story.

[HoosierPal]

Last night shows how tough it is to remain on top, or undefeated, in college basketball this year. Syracuse goes down at home to a 7 win BC team and Florida narrowly escapes at home to a 12 win Auburn team. What Wichita State has done to date is unbelievable. For anyone who doesn't think that, for now, they deserve a #1 seed has blinders on. If the Shockers loose a game, then we can talk again.

If you want to use RPI as a basis for your argument against WSU, explain the validity of using RPI as a foundation to Syracuse, RPI 3 v BC, RPI 194, and Florida RPI 4, v Auburn RPI 163.

[jaybydna]

If you want to see something funny, have Creighton win out, get a little help, then leapfrog WSU for the 1 seed. You would probably hear the implosion on the east coast.

In all seriousness, that won't happen, because any help we would get from others also helps them. I can dream, though, right?

[Westbrook36]

If the Shockers go 34-0 they deserve a number 1 seed, St. Joe's had a similar season and got rewarded with a #1. With that said, I agree with whoever said earlier in the thread, that while they may get a #1 seed they aren't one of the top 4 teams in the country, IMO. I think WSU is going to find the tournament much more difficult this year and it has nothing to do with their draw, this year they will have a big old target on their back. They won't be flying under the radar as some 8 or 9 seed this year, no one is going to be sleeping on them.

Sorry, but they will not deserve a #1 seed. The only thing that their season has in common with that St. Joe's team is that both have undefeated regular seasons. Even after their loss in the A10 tournament and their loss in the Elite 8, St. Joe's still had an RPI of #3 and their SOS was 46th. Their A10 schedule included Xavier, a team that went to the Elite 8 that year.

Wichita State currently has an RPI of #7 and a SOS of #90. Even with an undefeated season their SOS is expected to drop further to #104 due to the weakness of the remaining MVC teams on their schedule.

Big difference between giving a #1 seed to a team with a top 50 SOS and one that isn't even in the top 100.

Probably should've put a "IMO" in there, but that's water under the bridge. Non the less Bill, hate it as much as you want if Wichita St. goes undefeated they're getting a #1. You can pull whatever numbers out you want to show they don't deserved it, and I'll personally agree, but at the end of the day WSU at 34-0 equals a #1 seed. Just come to terms with, it's going to happen.

[mike]

WSU will definitely deserve a #1 seed if they run the table. If they are going to lose, I hope it is during the regular season and not at the MVC Tournament. If they lose at the MVC tournament, that means some other MVC team will be the automatic qualifier and WSU will take an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament that could go to a BE team.

[senditinjerome]

So what happens when all of a sudden, instead of being an underestimated #6 seed you are rewarded with a #1 seed. The hunter becomes the hunted and the spotlight and target is on your back. You can no longer fly under the radar--a role that you thrive on. Kentucky, Fl, Kansas, Syr and Mich St are used to that top seed role. Last year Gonzaga as a mid major #1 didn't get out of the 1st weekend. This will be uncharted territory for WSU, so is it safe to assume that they may feel a little pressure to validate that #1 seed? Compound that with being undefeated. That too carries a weight. Is it outlandish and off the mark for me to suggest that the two things might cause the Shocker players to tighten a bit?

Excellent point...For these reasons, I think it would be better if Wichita actually lost a game now and dropped down to a #3 or #4 seed...There would be less pressure to validate the #1 seed. They would still have a target on their back and would still be the mid-major darling, but the target would not be as big and the spotlight not as bright.

[chicagojayfan]

So what happens when all of a sudden, instead of being an underestimated #6 seed you are rewarded with a #1 seed. The hunter becomes the hunted and the spotlight and target is on your back. You can no longer fly under the radar--a role that you thrive on. Kentucky, Fl, Kansas, Syr and Mich St are used to that top seed role. Last year Gonzaga as a mid major #1 didn't get out of the 1st weekend. This will be uncharted territory for WSU, so is it safe to assume that they may feel a little pressure to validate that #1 seed? Compound that with being undefeated. That too carries a weight. Is it outlandish and off the mark for me to suggest that the two things might cause the Shocker players to tighten a bit?

Excellent point...For these reasons, I think it would be better if Wichita actually lost a game now and dropped down to a #3 or #4 seed...There would be less pressure to validate the #1 seed. They would still have a target on their back and would still be the mid-major darling, but the target would not be as big and the spotlight not as bright.

there is a slight chance ISU blue could take them out in the finals of the conference tourney. It happened a few years ago when Odem was a frosh, IIRC. If everything flips the right way, WSU could lose a slow, possession based game against them. Not likely, but not impossible either.

[stever20]

Being undefeated and a mid-major #1 seed seems like an awful lot of pressure to me. How do they respond when down double digits in the 2nd half? Do they feel like they are representing mid-majors everywhere and start getting a little tight?

Don't bait me Gumby! That is exactly why Mid-Majors love to play BCS football schools.

I'm not baiting anyone. Is it the term "mid-major" that has your panties in a bunch? Some may see that term and think it holds a connotation of being less than a BCS school. I do not. It is simply a term for the type of league that one is in. The MVC is not the B1G. Saying that Wich St is better than Iowa, or Mich St, Wisc., is fine and is a reasonable debate. But the MVC is just not a league that can compare top to bottom. I don't think any Jays fan would reasonably conclude any different now that they are in a league with 9 other quality programs, right?

My point that must have been missed... Many "mid-majors" use that designation as fuel. They surely feel like they have been judged to be less than the BCS schools. They are motivated to prove that they belong with the big boys. Heck, I have heard as much from Jays fans (and Butler and XU fans) trying to justify that they belonged in the discussion for the BET title at the start of this season. So what happens when all of a sudden, instead of being an underestimated #6 seed you are rewarded with a #1 seed. The hunter becomes the hunted and the spotlight and target is on your back. You can no longer fly under the radar--a role that you thrive on. Kentucky, Fl, Kansas, Syr and Mich St are used to that top seed role. Last year Gonzaga as a mid major #1 didn't get out of the 1st weekend. This will be uncharted territory for WSU, so is it safe to assume that they may feel a little pressure to validate that #1 seed? Compound that with being undefeated. That too carries a weight. Is it outlandish and off the mark for me to suggest that the two things might cause the Shocker players to tighten a bit?

Huge difference between Gonzaga last year and Wichita this year. Prior tourney experience. Gonzaga really didn't have that much- for 4 year seniors they had played 6 NCAA tourney games- 2 each year. Having gone thru last year is something that will help Wichita out considerably this year.

[notkirkcameron]

Yes, Wichita State is undefeated, and while some on this board thinks that carries some kind of inherent, mystical merit all it's own, it doesn't. A hammer is undefeated against a nail. As always, the committee always looks at "Who did you play, where did you play them, and who did you beat?"

Wichita State has one win against the Top 25. ONE. Saint Louis (#13) back in December. The Shockers have as many wins against the Top 50 as MARQUETTE does (2). You remember Marquette, the team that desperately needs quality wins just to even be in the bubble discussion? Looking at their resume, yes, they've never lost, but we really have no idea how good they are because they're essentially picking on the slow kid in class. At a time when most teams are in the toughest portion of their conference schedule, Wichita State has played FIVE teams with sub-200 RPIs in the last three weeks.

I also think it's a little strange to justify their nonexistent conference schedule just because "they tried to schedule tough in non-conference, but some teams under-performed."

It's worthwhile context here that Marquette scheduled Ohio State, a road trip to Arizona State and the Wooden Legacy (where they had to play a "neutral" site game against San Diego State in Anaheim), at Wisconsin, and another "neutral" site game against New Mexico in Las Vegas, all before getting into the meat grinder of the Big East. That's trying to schedule tough in nonconference, and MU, rightly or wrongly, got punished for it with losses to Arizona State, San Diego State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and New Mexico.

But remember, with Wichita, we're talking about scheduling Tennessee (at home), BYU and DePaul at a "Neutral" Site (Kansas City, less than a 3-hour drive from their campus), Alabama (preseason picked to finish 6th in the SEC), and Tulsa (KenPom picked to finish 7th in Conference USA, because C-USA doesn't conduct a pre-season poll). Good on the Shockers for beating SLU on the road, but nonconference Chaifetz is hardly an arena that strikes terror into anybody's hearts yet. Otherwise, that's a lousy non-conference slate. Period dot.

Even if they finish the season undefeated, they should not be given a number one seed.