Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[NJRedman]

""Where were the StLouis fans and the Dayton fans?""

Go rewind your tape of the A10 tourney last year. Dayton was the most represented. Just like Dayton had most fans at atlantic City while the tourney was there.
Not really sure where you got your info. Could be that Dayton bowed out early...

Looked to me like VCU was the best represented fan base in Brooklyn last year.

[marquette]

Yes, Ivy League schools have the resources, but none of them can go it on their own without encountering a ceiling on how high they can rise. Just look at what Tommy Amaker is doing at Harvard. They're good enough to get a bid even if they finished the season in a tie and lost a playoff game. But they could never become "The Duke of the North" as long as they're in the Ivy League because. They're limited by the level of the competitor - unless of course the whole Ivy League chose a different path as an entire conference.

Butler, Memphis, Creighton, Gonzaga. Which of them has 1/100th of the resources of the Ivies?

Harvard, Yale, and Princeton could throw $10 million/year at a basketball coach and not even blink. They could raise that from boosters by next Wednesday.

[BillikensWin]

With regard to geographic balance, one of the conference's top priorities has to be attendance at the Big East tournament. If for no other reason than that, the conference should continue to maintain growth in the East as part of its plan when it expands because proximity of a member to NYC works in favor of better attendance while distance is an impediment.

Huh? I would think that the tourney attendance might be ninth or tenth on the list, and should take care of itself no matter what the make up of the conference is.

First priority is support of FS1 through an attractive market. Second is putting people in seats for the 200 conference games. Third is getting adequate representation in the NCAA tourney.

Are you assuming that us Midwest fans can't find our way east? You don't think Creighton will be the dominate crowd at MSG? The more significant cost of going to the tourney is staying in NYC, not getting there, and the high cost of the tickets. I got to NYC for $180 RT last trip flying Indy to LGA. What does one night stay cost? What does it cost to park my car in NYC for a weekend?

I guess Fordham might be available for addition. Their fan can take the subway to the tourney.

If you'd think that tournament attendance is 9th or 10th on the list, then you'd be wrong.

If you think that proximity makes Fordham a viable candidate, you're wrong again.

The tournament is the conference's show case even. It is a big deal for television, a major part of the attractiveness of the conference for network investment. It's not possible for the conference to succeed without that tournament succeeding.

Of course I don't think that Midwest fans can't find their way east. I even mentioned that Creighton has done a great job selling out its allotment. But that wasn't really my point, was it?

Creighton is a unique program. When the conference is looking at programs in the Midwest that have half the home attendance that Creighton does with correspondingly less enthusiasm for the program, you're les likely to see the same numbers traveling. All you have to do is look at the turnout for the A10 tournament at Barclay's Center last spring. VCU fans were the on.y ones who turned out in big numbers. Where were the StLouis fans and the Dayton fans?

In St. Louis, Missouri watching and waiting to see where we were going in the NCAA Tournament. Remember the premise that outside of the core Billikens fans, very few people in the city give a damn about the A-10.

[Gopher+RamFan]

Winningest Programs since 2008-2009

1. Kansas 174-32
2. Duke 171-35
3. Syracuse 171-36
4. Ohio St. 162-43
5. Kentucky 161-45
6. Louisville 159-48
7. Gonzaga 158- 36
8. Memphis 155-43
9. UNC 154-53
10. Michigan St. 153-51
SDSU 153-42
VCU 153-51

http://syracusefan.com/threads/winngest ... ate.68063/

Granted, some of those programs were playing in weaker conferences - but considering the Big East will be expanding from said weaker conferences; I thought this was an important statistic. VCU is also, one of only 8 schools, with a win in each of the last 3 NCAA tournaments.

[notkirkcameron]

If that means inviting Gonzaga, so be it, even if the Zags join solely for basketball. each of our current members already probably schedule at least one game or participate in one exempt tourney that is way out of their own Conference's footprint (Hawaii, Alaska, etc.). What would be so terrible for our current 10 members to take a single trip each to the west coast. If someone brings up the woes of Gonzaga travelling to 10 East and Midwestern venues to join the Big East, I would respond by suggesting that nobody twisted their arm to make them join. They must have decided it would pay dividends to do so.

Worth pointing out the following:

The farthest trip for Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference (Spokane to San Diego) is over 100 miles shorter than their closest potential road trip in an expanded Big East (Spokane to Omaha).

Gonzaga's shortest road trip in the Big East (to Omaha) would almost be as long as the longest road trip in the current Big East (Providence to Omaha).

Flying from Spokane to Providence (2,261 miles) or Washington, DC (2,095 miles), is almost like flying from Spokane to Mexico City (2,206 miles).

No other Division I basketball conference stretches across 4 different time zones. Not one.

Only the following conferences even stretch across THREE different time zones, and it's largely due to one single outlying member
Big Sky (only because of North Dakota)
Big West (only because of Hawaii)
Conference USA (only because of UTEP)
Summit League (only because of Denver)
WAC (Don't even get me started)

What do they all have in common? Aside from maybe the Big Sky, which, it should be noted, is a perennially one-bid league, all these conferences only stretch across three time zones because of absolute necessity to survive. Hawaii was flying cross-country and then some on road trips in the old WAC, so they moved their non-football sports to the Big West; a conference that only had members in California. The WAC, Summit League, and Conference USA just patched together the leftovers of schools no other conferences wanted. None are conferences that the Big East should aspire to emulate.

[billyjack]

The Ivy League is choosing not to take part in the commercialization of college sports. That's the reason they have no Ivy League basketball tournament. Conferences can give out their bid to whomever they choose. Most choose to have a conference tourney to determine the winner because it makes more money. The Ivy League can do this, they are the highest academic institutions in the country and people will always know who they are. Few other schools have that option and must get their name out however they can. If Harvard, Yale, and Princeton decided tomorrow that they wanted to be the 3 best athletic institutions in the country I would bet anything that by 2020 they would be on top in every sport. They have those kinds of resources.

My dislike of college football and its fans has grown so much recently, that your never-will-happen Ivy scenario would be a freakin dream. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, etc, are sitting on tens of billions of dollars. To prove a point, I'd love for them to hire away the best coaches (just hand Saban and Meyer $25 million a year for ten years) and write their own rules to pay players, get the best around, and then destroy Alabama, Texas, etc. Hey, Brown did play in the first official Rose Bowl...!

[HoosierPal]

If you'd think that tournament attendance is 9th or 10th on the list, then you'd be wrong.

The tournament is the conference's show case even. It is a big deal for television, a major part of the attractiveness of the conference for network investment. It's not possible for the conference to succeed without that tournament succeeding.

The SHOW CASE, to whom or for whom? Are there basketball judges out there judging conference tourney attendance or attractiveness? Are NCAA bids tied to conference tourney showcase? Does the Fox Sports contract have a reopener if the tourney isn't a 'showcase'?

And I guess you don't think the Big East tourney can sell itself on merit with whatever mix of teams is there? I guess if we have a 'nice attractive' Big East tourney, a television success, but only get two teams into the NCAA, then all is well.

Horrors if Creighton plays Marquette or Xavier in the Big East Finals this year! Likely there would be zero people in the stands, zero interest in America for the final and likely everyone in would turn off their TV's.

[Bill Marsh]

If anyone questions who's calling the shots in the Big East consider that tonight's St. John's - Seton Hall game is on in the middle of a blizzard despite the fact that Seton Hall has canceled its student buses and despite the fact that just down the road Rutgers has canceled their game. Fox wants the game, Fox gets the game.

It will be the same in expansion.

[Bill Marsh]

If you'd think that tournament attendance is 9th or 10th on the list, then you'd be wrong.

The tournament is the conference's show case even. It is a big deal for television, a major part of the attractiveness of the conference for network investment. It's not possible for the conference to succeed without that tournament succeeding.

The SHOW CASE, to whom or for whom? Are there basketball judges out there judging conference tourney attendance or attractiveness? Are NCAA bids tied to conference tourney showcase? Does the Fox Sports contract have a reopener if the tourney isn't a 'showcase'?

And I guess you don't think the Big East tourney can sell itself on merit with whatever mix of teams is there? I guess if we have a 'nice attractive' Big East tourney, a television success, but only get two teams into the NCAA, then all is well.

Horrors if Creighton plays Marquette or Xavier in the Big East Finals this year! Likely there would be zero people in the stands, zero interest in America for the final and likely everyone in would turn off their TV's.

Hmm . . .

Hard to know how to respond to that one.

Ratings matter.

[Bill Marsh]

If that means inviting Gonzaga, so be it, even if the Zags join solely for basketball. each of our current members already probably schedule at least one game or participate in one exempt tourney that is way out of their own Conference's footprint (Hawaii, Alaska, etc.). What would be so terrible for our current 10 members to take a single trip each to the west coast. If someone brings up the woes of Gonzaga travelling to 10 East and Midwestern venues to join the Big East, I would respond by suggesting that nobody twisted their arm to make them join. They must have decided it would pay dividends to do so.

Worth pointing out the following:

The farthest trip for Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference (Spokane to San Diego) is over 100 miles shorter than their closest potential road trip in an expanded Big East (Spokane to Omaha).

Gonzaga's shortest road trip in the Big East (to Omaha) would almost be as long as the longest road trip in the current Big East (Providence to Omaha).

Flying from Spokane to Providence (2,261 miles) or Washington, DC (2,095 miles), is almost like flying from Spokane to Mexico City (2,206 miles).

No other Division I basketball conference stretches across 4 different time zones. Not one.

Only the following conferences even stretch across THREE different time zones, and it's largely due to one single outlying member
Big Sky (only because of North Dakota)
Big West (only because of Hawaii)
Conference USA (only because of UTEP)
Summit League (only because of Denver)
WAC (Don't even get me started)

What do they all have in common? Aside from maybe the Big Sky, which, it should be noted, is a perennially one-bid league, all these conferences only stretch across three time zones because of absolute necessity to survive. Hawaii was flying cross-country and then some on road trips in the old WAC, so they moved their non-football sports to the Big West; a conference that only had members in California. The WAC, Summit League, and Conference USA just patched together the leftovers of schools no other conferences wanted. None are conferences that the Big East should aspire to emulate.

It's also worth pointing out the following:

1. Air planes routinely fly at 600 mph.
2. Regardless of whether it's a short trip or a long trip, the hassle of getting to and from the airport, going through baggage and check in, etc is all the same. Once you're in the air, an extra hour or even two is no big deal.
3. Most of the problems of travel are readily solved with intelligent scheduling and divisional play. It's probably one trip to the East Coast per year for Gonzaga. I think they can manage that.
4. Regardless of how many time zones they cover, there certainly are conferences that have the same span of distance as the Big East would have with Gonzaga.