Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bill Marsh]

Oh so we'll just shelf the expansion for say what? 20 years? That sound good? Tell Fox to just hold tight while we wait and see who has long term success?

Winning the A-10 2 straight years, making the NCAA three straight, wins in the last two...what have you done for me lately! hahaha

Seriously, you guys are a hoot! I forgot that Butler was a national power at Butler for a couple of decades. Same with Creighton in the MVC. It's funny at how tough the standards have gotten. I seriously doubt most of the current Big East would meet the standards set forth by most of the posters here.

Saint Louis is a perfect fit for this league if they win every year or not.

Once again, if you bring in a winning team, then you are turning a current winning team into a losing one. Thats just the way it works.

What got your panties all in a bunch? You asked a question, i answered it. Are you suggesting long term success is not desirable in an expansion candidate?

The 3 schools that the C7 added last year had a run of success that went back more than 2 or 3 years.

Xavier - 22 NCAA tournament bids over the past 30 years under multiple coaches, 2 Elite 8's & 5 Sweet 16's in the past decade.

Butler - 11 NCAA tournament bids over the past 16 years, highlighted by 2 runs to the NC game but also including a total of 4 runs to the sweet 16 and they did it under 3 or 4 different coaches.

Creighton - 9 bids to the NCAA tournament over the past 14 years with tournament wins over Florida, Louisville, Alabama, and Cincinnati. Add to that incredible home attendance.

Those are established programs, which is why they were chosen. Whether you look at the past 15 years or the past 30 years, St Louis' record simply doesn't compare.

St Louis - 6 bids to the NCAA tournament in the past 19 years with a total of 4 tournament wins - New Mexico State, Memphis, UMass, Minnesota

Whose panties are in a bunch? Not mine.

This Saint Louis program just won the A-10, in what was one of if not THE strongest year that conference has had. Not just the regular season or the tournament but BOTH. Butler was not a national power coming out of the Horizon league. Yes, they made the tournament in a weaker conference. Saint Louis was vying for a bid playing against tougher competition. Not knocking Butler, but we can all see their struggles once they started playing stiffer competition.

Saint Louis can't help who they get matched up with so your listing of who beat who is inconsequential.

Also once again, the part of my argument that you clearly continue to ignore is that it doesn't matter how good the program is! Teams will finish 1-12 no matter how many good teams you add. You can add the best teams in the country, that just means the established teams will now be bottom feeders not making the tournament. Also, everyone will have bad years. Look at Butler and Marquette. IT'S NOT THE VALUE YOU BRING WHILE YOU'RE PLAYING WELL, BUT THE VALUE YOU BRING WHILE PLAYING POORLY THAT MATTERS! I can't believe how so many of you continue to ignore this since it is what will be used by the presidents and commissioner when discussing who they will add.

You're ignoring the point of the conversation.

You asked, "What more could we want?"

I said, "Long term success."

You went off on a diatribe.

I made the simple point that long term success would make any candidate more desirable. Why in the world would you argue against that?

As for Butler, they certainly have been a national power in the past decade. They didn't just make the tournament out of the Horizon League, they validated their bid by making it to the Sweet 16 4 times in a decade and getting to the championship game twice. If that's not a national. Power, what is?

St Louis didn't make the tournament because they were facing tougher competition? Be serious. If St Louis couldn't win their way into the tournament in a mid major league, then they didn't belong. It's not like they were playing in the Big East where you could get away with that argument.

If your argument is the value that a program brings when they're losing, then Dayton is your team. Automatic for 12,000 fans in the seats every year for 35 years. Top 25 in attendance despite having a mediocre program on the court. They're your boys.

[BillikensWin]

SLU is making a case. If it's not good enough, c'est la vie.

Jim Crews took over in August of 2012, right before the season started. I think it's gone pretty well since.

*Here comes the irrelevant historical argument of how Crews sucks.

[Xudash]

Let's see, ESPN has Ohio St - Michigan and NBC has the Winter Olympics and FS1 has Xavier and Butler as their competition to ESPN rivalry week. At least if the NBE had UD in the mix they would have a legitimate tv draw regionally for rivalry week. I flipped to the X- Butler game momentarily and it had a very Horizon or MAC feel to it.

Great argument! Let's add Dayton so that FS1 can participate in ESPN's rivalry week!

He's a UD fan. Learn not to expect much from their comments. Like the guy earlier who knows that UD officials have been quietly told that UD and SLU will be invited this year, as if any post-formation expansion candidate would be provided such information, and they would then breach what certainly would have been an ironclad confidentiality agreement, by allowing fans to learn of such information.

Otherwise, did you know we could wrap-up the Dayton, Ohio television market by adding UD? Coveted. I mean it's the cat's meow.

[Bill Marsh]

If we are going to add someone (I'm on record saying I'd like to stay at 10), I'd like to understand why SLU is only averaging 7,798 fans per game with a nationally ranked program. There is no question in my mind that the Billikens would be team #11, but the support does give me some concern.

Yeah, if they can't sell out this season, not sure when you can...that number would be easily bottom half of Big East. I could understand if this year was the first year they've been good for awhile but they've been good for 2.5 years now, support should have built up by now.

Uh, want to look at the attendance pulled from each Big East school's website before you make any judgment.

Here is where we stand before tonight's games as far as reported average attendance.

Creighton, 17,686
Marquette 14,949
Xavier 9,825
Georgetown 8,664
Butler 7,977
Providence 7,531
Villanova 7,134
St. Johns 6,996
Seton Hall 6,244
DePaul 2,500 (realistic estimate)

Looks like Saint Louis would be mid pack, not bottom half.
What is Villanova's capacity? I don't know. Are they selling out?

Well, I guess it would depend on whom they added along with St Louis (7798). If they added Dayton (12,189) as the 12th member, then St Louis would in fact be in the lower half.

BTW, if you're going to use attendance pulled from each school's website, the DePaul is 6109 this year.

[pki1998]

Well, I guess it would depend on whom they added along with St Louis (7798). If they added Dayton (12,189) as the 12th member, then St Louis would in fact be in the lower half.

BTW, if you're going to use attendance pulled from each school's website, the DePaul is 6109 this year.

If Bullfrogs had wings they wouldn't bumb the but when they jumped. The original statement was that SLU's attendance would easily be in the bottom half. Using current figures and the teams in the Big East they wouldn't be in the bottom half. Even if we buy your arguement that adding UD with SLU leaves SLU at position 7 out of 12 and less than 200 out of the 6th spot. Unless we do not have the same definition interpretation of the phrase easily in the bottom half.

[BEwannabe]

I'm making no case for UD other than commenting how lame the FS1 offering was last night for national or for that matter regional tv. As a couple of posters here have astutely observed, people on this board know nothing, the Presidents will make the call for who and when.

[Dawgsfolife]

I'm making no case for UD other than commenting how lame the FS1 offering was last night for national or for that matter regional tv. As a couple of posters here have astutely observed, people on this board know nothing, the Presidents will make the call for who and when.

Lame offering? That same game is one of the highlights for ESPN in all of their games for 2009. The teams hate each other, and mark my words, in years to come when they are both competitive, it will be a great game(s) to watch. I am guessing what you are suggesting is that the game should not be on b/c Butler is in a down year? How about 2010 UNC/Duke (Duke won by 32), or Ok State v. Texas this year (great game). No one ever has a down year nor do game ever not live up to the hype thus making them lame offerings, cough cough SB this year.

[marquette]

I'm making no case for UD other than commenting how lame the FS1 offering was last night for national or for that matter regional tv. As a couple of posters here have astutely observed, people on this board know nothing, the Presidents will make the call for who and when.

At this point FS1 is still a startup. They need quantity more than quality. All those prime-time hours to fill, only so much content available. What matters to tv channels is having original, live programming. Additionally, Butler-Xavier looks to become a pretty decent rivalry once Butler is back on the upswing. Marquette might be able to cash in on that as well considering we split with Butler last year and this year, and could do the same with Xavier come Saturday (even if we lose it will probably just fuel a desire to beat Xavier twice next year).

[marquette]

If your argument is the value that a program brings when they're losing, then Dayton is your team. Automatic for 12,000 fans in the seats every year for 35 years. Top 25 in attendance despite having a mediocre program on the court. They're your boys.

This is by far the strongest argument I've seen for Dayton. I'm somewhat surprised that no UD fans have framed it this way. I don't know if it is enough to get them in at 12, but I'm pretty confident it won't be at 11. As far as SLU being in the bottom half of the league for attendance, so would any team we add other than Dayton. In fact, the size of the arenas at VCU and UR would not even allow them to ever be in the top half of the league if the numbers remain the same. I'm not sure how big a role attendance will play in this decision, but unless Dayton goes to the sweet 16 this year that is their biggest argument.

[HoosierPal]

Well, I guess it would depend on whom they added along with St Louis (7798). If they added Dayton (12,189) as the 12th member, then St Louis would in fact be in the lower half.

BTW, if you're going to use attendance pulled from each school's website, the DePaul is 6109 this year.

If Bullfrogs had wings they wouldn't bumb the but when they jumped. The original statement was that SLU's attendance would easily be in the bottom half. Using current figures and the teams in the Big East they wouldn't be in the bottom half. Even if we buy your arguement that adding UD with SLU leaves SLU at position 7 out of 12 and less than 200 out of the 6th spot. Unless we do not have the same definition interpretation of the phrase easily in the bottom half.

I really don't get some people's animosity towards any possible new schools. There is nothing wrong with either Dayton or SLU in my book. With my Bulldogs trending down, and SLU trending up, SLU will end up with a higher average attendance than we do. Both of our arenas are 10,000, so it's a valid comparison.