Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bluejay]

If we are going to add someone (I'm on record saying I'd like to stay at 10), I'd like to understand why SLU is only averaging 7,798 fans per game with a nationally ranked program. There is no question in my mind that the Billikens would be team #11, but the support does give me some concern.

Yeah, if they can't sell out this season, not sure when you can...that number would be easily bottom half of Big East. I could understand if this year was the first year they've been good for awhile but they've been good for 2.5 years now, support should have built up by now.

How about when Gtown, Creighton, Nova, Xavier, Butler comes to town? I mean really, they are so far out on an island in their own conference now. Dayton is the closest school to them and even there you have illinois and indiana between them.

You're pretty much saying if you can't sell tickets against Fordham, St. Joe's and George Washington then you have no chance of selling seats against GTown, Nova and St. John's. That makes zero sense.

I get what you are saying, but fans should come out to watch the home team, not their opponent.

[HoosierPal]

HoosierPal,

It's not the idea of attendance that doesn't belong on this board, it's the discussion of other Conferences or teams from other Conferences that should be considered not relevant for our discussions.

Furthermore, as many have already stated on this thread, a potential member will be considered by the Big East's powers-that-be not on the basis of a single criterion, but as a result of a careful study of their entire package as compared to all the other schools under consideration.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I didn't read the Holy Land of Hoops Rules and Regulations well enough. Was that rule on page 24, paragraph 2(b) or page 29, paragraph 3(f)?

[NJRedman]

Yeah, if they can't sell out this season, not sure when you can...that number would be easily bottom half of Big East. I could understand if this year was the first year they've been good for awhile but they've been good for 2.5 years now, support should have built up by now.

How about when Gtown, Creighton, Nova, Xavier, Butler comes to town? I mean really, they are so far out on an island in their own conference now. Dayton is the closest school to them and even there you have illinois and indiana between them.

You're pretty much saying if you can't sell tickets against Fordham, St. Joe's and George Washington then you have no chance of selling seats against GTown, Nova and St. John's. That makes zero sense.

Not trying to boast but Creighton sold out an arena twice as large with the likes of Evansville, Indiana State and Missouri State's of the world. I have no doubt that our fan support helped us get into the Big East. If SLU was selling out their arena for every game, it would be that much harder for the Big East to turn them down. It would show that their is strong enough fan support to hopefully withstand down years. On our "down years" 4-5 years ago, we still averaged 14K a game.

But St. Louis isn't Omaha, there are many other things vying for casual fans attention and disposable cash.

[NJRedman]

Long term success.

Oh so we'll just shelf the expansion for say what? 20 years? That sound good? Tell Fox to just hold tight while we wait and see who has long term success?

Winning the A-10 2 straight years, making the NCAA three straight, wins in the last two...what have you done for me lately! hahaha

Seriously, you guys are a hoot! I forgot that Butler was a national power at Butler for a couple of decades. Same with Creighton in the MVC. It's funny at how tough the standards have gotten. I seriously doubt most of the current Big East would meet the standards set forth by most of the posters here.

Saint Louis is a perfect fit for this league if they win every year or not.

Once again, if you bring in a winning team, then you are turning a current winning team into a losing one. Thats just the way it works.

What got your panties all in a bunch? You asked a question, i answered it. Are you suggesting long term success is not desirable in an expansion candidate?

The 3 schools that the C7 added last year had a run of success that went back more than 2 or 3 years.

Xavier - 22 NCAA tournament bids over the past 30 years under multiple coaches, 2 Elite 8's & 5 Sweet 16's in the past decade.

Butler - 11 NCAA tournament bids over the past 16 years, highlighted by 2 runs to the NC game but also including a total of 4 runs to the sweet 16 and they did it under 3 or 4 different coaches.

Creighton - 9 bids to the NCAA tournament over the past 14 years with tournament wins over Florida, Louisville, Alabama, and Cincinnati. Add to that incredible home attendance.

Those are established programs, which is why they were chosen. Whether you look at the past 15 years or the past 30 years, St Louis' record simply doesn't compare.

St Louis - 6 bids to the NCAA tournament in the past 19 years with a total of 4 tournament wins - New Mexico State, Memphis, UMass, Minnesota

Whose panties are in a bunch? Not mine.

This Saint Louis program just won the A-10, in what was one of if not THE strongest year that conference has had. Not just the regular season or the tournament but BOTH. Butler was not a national power coming out of the Horizon league. Yes, they made the tournament in a weaker conference. Saint Louis was vying for a bid playing against tougher competition. Not knocking Butler, but we can all see their struggles once they started playing stiffer competition.

Saint Louis can't help who they get matched up with so your listing of who beat who is inconsequential.

Also once again, the part of my argument that you clearly continue to ignore is that it doesn't matter how good the program is! Teams will finish 1-12 no matter how many good teams you add. You can add the best teams in the country, that just means the established teams will now be bottom feeders not making the tournament. Also, everyone will have bad years. Look at Butler and Marquette. IT'S NOT THE VALUE YOU BRING WHILE YOU'RE PLAYING WELL, BUT THE VALUE YOU BRING WHILE PLAYING POORLY THAT MATTERS! I can't believe how so many of you continue to ignore this since it is what will be used by the presidents and commissioner when discussing who they will add.

[BEwannabe]

Let's see, ESPN has Ohio St - Michigan and NBC has the Winter Olympics and FS1 has Xavier and Butler as their competition to ESPN rivalry week. At least if the NBE had UD in the mix they would have a legitimate tv draw regionally for rivalry week. I flipped to the X- Butler game momentarily and it had a very Horizon or MAC feel to it.

[XBand15]

Let's see, ESPN has Ohio St - Michigan and NBC has the Winter Olympics and FS1 has Xavier and Butler as their competition to ESPN rivalry week. At least if the NBE had UD in the mix they would have a legitimate tv draw regionally for rivalry week. I flipped to the X- Butler game momentarily and it had a very Horizon or MAC feel to it.

Do we really expect Xavier Butler to match up well against the olympics? I mean come. Also I don't know what you are trying to imply, but I can go ahead an tell you that if Xavier and UD were playing each other tonight, people would still care way more about Ohio St-Michigan. I don't realize why everyone thinks it is such a big deal. I mean no one really cares about that rivalry outside of Xavier and UD and the 40 mile bloc of ohio that separates the two. So I don't really think having Xavier play UD over Butler would change anything.

and I'll even say something that will shock everyone. I DON'T CARE ABOUT DAYTON. I'm probably the only X poster who will say this but I honestly don't care. I don't care that we don't play anymore, I wouldn't care if we add them back to the schedule next year, and I wouldn't care if we added them some point down the road. There I said it.

[Burrito]

Dude, you have 86 posts on this board and not one of them is positive about the Big East. Not sure why you keep coming back. Isn't there an ACC message board somewhere for you to post?

[HoosierPal]

If we are going to add someone (I'm on record saying I'd like to stay at 10), I'd like to understand why SLU is only averaging 7,798 fans per game with a nationally ranked program. There is no question in my mind that the Billikens would be team #11, but the support does give me some concern.

Yeah, if they can't sell out this season, not sure when you can...that number would be easily bottom half of Big East. I could understand if this year was the first year they've been good for awhile but they've been good for 2.5 years now, support should have built up by now.

Uh, want to look at the attendance pulled from each Big East school's website before you make any judgment.

Here is where we stand before tonight's games as far as reported average attendance.

Creighton, 17,686
Marquette 14,949
Xavier 9,825
Georgetown 8,664
Butler 7,977
Providence 7,531
Villanova 7,134
St. Johns 6,996
Seton Hall 6,244
DePaul 2,500 (realistic estimate)

Looks like Saint Louis would be mid pack, not bottom half.
What is Villanova's capacity? I don't know. Are they selling out?

[Hibbs]

Let's see, ESPN has Ohio St - Michigan and NBC has the Winter Olympics and FS1 has Xavier and Butler as their competition to ESPN rivalry week. At least if the NBE had UD in the mix they would have a legitimate tv draw regionally for rivalry week. I flipped to the X- Butler game momentarily and it had a very Horizon or MAC feel to it.

Great argument! Let's add Dayton so that FS1 can participate in ESPN's rivalry week!

[XU85]

Let's see, ESPN has Ohio St - Michigan and NBC has the Winter Olympics and FS1 has Xavier and Butler as their competition to ESPN rivalry week. At least if the NBE had UD in the mix they would have a legitimate tv draw regionally for rivalry week. I flipped to the X- Butler game momentarily and it had a very Horizon or MAC feel to it.

Do we really expect Xavier Butler to match up well against the olympics? I mean come. Also I don't know what you are trying to imply, but I can go ahead an tell you that if Xavier and UD were playing each other tonight, people would still care way more about Ohio St-Michigan. I don't realize why everyone thinks it is such a big deal. I mean no one really cares about that rivalry outside of Xavier and UD and the 40 mile bloc of ohio that separates the two. So I don't really think having Xavier play UD over Butler would change anything.

and I'll even say something that will shock everyone. I DON'T CARE ABOUT DAYTON. I'm probably the only X poster who will say this but I honestly don't care. I don't care that we don't play anymore, I wouldn't care if we add them back to the schedule next year, and I wouldn't care if we added them some point down the road. There I said it.

x2 I'm with you. X has bigger fish to fry.