Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[CTYankee10]

Why are we still talking about Dayton? Garbage school, garbage program that nobody cares about. 0% chance of ever being added.

There's no private-Catholic school pre-requisite to be added, so let's stop talking about these middling programs. I'm not ecstatic with VCU or SLU, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we added them as I would be if we added Dayton. Cue TSmithOhio to talk about a neutral court win against Ole Miss as a sign that Dayton is tournament-caliber

[Xudash]

Dayton is perfect for the Big East. Every, year UD has a great non-conference RPI with huge top 50 BCS wins (something like 20-10 versus BCS teams the last 5-10 years). This year, neutral win Cal, neutral win Gonzaga, @GT, @Ole Miss, etc. Then the Flyers would come to Big East play with a good RPI like 30 and end up with a conference record of like 6-10 ending up with a RPI like 50. So the Big East teams would get 10 quality wins versus a top 50 Dayton team including some @Dayton bolstering the NCAA tourney resumes of bubble teams. Perfect for Providence, Xavier, St. John's, and Georgetown this year. They would all get another top 50/60 win and might be the difference for 1-2 Big East bubble teams.

The Big East also would get 13k fans a game at Dayton, top 10 per capita TV college market, and 1,000+ Dayton fans at the Big East tourney a year (Dayton travels well which is important for away games and the tourney). And again most importantly, Dayton has consistently been top 100 RPI and probably averaged 40-60 over the past 10 years so some good quality wins for the rest of the conference.

BTW, I have not done the analysis, but my guess is Dayton has an average RPI the last 10 years in the middle of the pack of the Big East. If you added St. Louis and Dayton, my guess is Dayton's ending RPI would be about 5th-7th in the league. They have been on the wrong side of the bubble 3-4x the last 10 years.

Dayton is a terrible fit for the Bid East. It screams mid-major and has a terrible modern day track record. It's wins in its terrible OOC schedules against BCS programs have not been "huge."

PER CAPITA is not what we need to consider when it comes to television markets, so that is a terrible argument.

IF we expand - there certainly is no guaranty that will even happen - then SLU most likely steps in initially. #12 isn't clear at this point, but Dayton certainly isn't it.

If not Dayton, then whom do you favor?

That's the problem, isn't it? It isn't terribly obvious who to favor beyond St. Louis.

I assume most people involved in the decision-making process want to retain an east/west balance. My vote to accomplish that includes Richmond, given present options, yet Richmond isn't a very popular choice with many here.

That is why I am in no hurry for expansion to take place: the best options are not obvious.

Beyond that, I think most of the conversation about this is focused way too much on the near-term and present environment. We are building a brand here. We are doing that with the conference overall, as well as with each school that is a part of it. Let's give the current configuration time gel. Let's see what happens over the course of the next few years.

If it makes sense to expand, the leadership will pursue expansion.

In the meantime, adding a school 50 miles up the road from a current member that happens to reside in a small television market makes no sense to me. The XU/UD rivalry does not move the meter at the national level. It's hasn't been much of a rivalry anyway, as made clear by the above posts that look at the rivalry on a more logical basis. Otherwise, there is nothing about UD's resume that warrants it's inclusion in this conference at this time.

[HoosierPal]

I took a stroll through the Xavier Media Guide, and Dayton leads the all time X-D series 85-75. Last 10 meetings are 6-4 X. Hardly a crushing in my book. My gosh, wouldn't Xavier relish the chance to continue this long standing (160 game) series? Talk about a rivalry.

33-18 X regular season in recent history since they've played for the trophy and stopped shooting underhanded. .. UD compiled their lead in the 50's. No UD's wins since 1981 in Cincinnati. Crushing.

So the last 10 games are meaningless and no indication of anything. [Convenient argument.] What about W-L on Tuesdays? Stats can be cut anyway you want to make an argument.

I'm not advocating Dayton either joining or not joining. I'm just curious as to why Xavier fans feel they are SOOOOO much superior to Dayton?

What is super funny about this thread is that most all of the posters (yeah, I'm one of them) think their opinion actually matters. When the Big East expands, they won't put a poll on this message board to find out what the posters want.

[Hibbs]

At this point we should only add teams who should be expected to compete for the conference championship on a regular basis. That should be the top criteria out of the non-football schools the league is looking at.

[MackNova]

There isn't a single GREAT fit for the Big East that is out there. Not a single team out there that is a MUST-add. I want a team that has a track record of success and won't drag the Big East down closer to mid-majordom in terms of national perception.

Saint Louis is the best available option, and I clearly prefer them to the other options, but I don't know if we need to add them right now.

Dayton has 1 tournament win in the last 20 years and hasn't ever really been nationally relevant in my lifetime. We already filled our Ohio quota with Xavier. I really don't know what they would add, other than inventory. It's a nice program. Not a Big East program. I can't remember the last time I turned a Dayton game on because I wanted to watch Dayton.

I agree with Hibbs. The criteria should be: What team has a recent and sustained track record of success? Geography, academics and general 'fit' need to be considered, but the primary criteria is how good is your team now, and how good do we think your team will be in 5 years, 10 years and 15 years.

[bman95]

What is the reasoning against adding just one team? The only thing I can think of is the BE tournament would have to add 1 extra game. The last thing we need is to add a team and then regret it later on. I would rather stay at 10 then to HAVE to take 2.

[Xudash]

[quote="GibsoniaPA"]The discussion on UD is largely well balanced and posters have done well sharing both the down side and upside of UD joining. But what I find fascinating is the vitriol aimed at UD from every Xavier backer on this board. It's to the point when I see an X somewhere in the moniker I know the tone of the poster's comments before reading them. It makes me hope for an eventual UD invite if for no other reason that this kind of passion & natural rivalry would be GREAT for the league. I'm not sensing that much in the games I catch on the tube. A personal observation- if UD ever joins the BE the sheer passion of the school toward college basketball will prove be an asset to the league.... and don't count out the impact that a BE affiliation will mean to the UD's recruiting and additional $$ resources provided to the BB program. Something tells me that concerns many X backers. But unnecessarily so as you have a great program.[/]

Please. We all know how UD fans feel about Xavier. The crap you guys post on UDPride is hilarious.

Otherwise, UD was in the A10 -it only got into the A10 with Xavier's help - with Xavier for many years, with Xavier dominating UD in every regard but home attendance. UD getting into the Big East isn't a concern at all, when it comes to competitive reasons.

UD is a good school and I understand its fan base takes pride in its basketball program, but you're looking at this through UD rose-colored glasses. There are people here who believe, realistically or otherwise, that events over time could lead UCONN to place the interests of its basketball program over those of its football program. UCONN is only one example of a thought process that emphasizes a more open minded and patient view towards having better options reveal themselves. UD simply does not presently offer a compelling case for its inclusion in the Big East.

There is a lot of money and prestige at stake with this new Big East. Expansion, if it happens at all, will occur very carefully.

[HoosierPal]

Team 1: Currently 16-8, with a 1-1 record v Top 25, and a 3-4 record v Top 50
Team 2: Currently 16-7, with a 1-3 record v Top 25, and a 3-5 record v Top 50

Which one is superior, or are they about the same. Which one is X and which one is D?

Just sayin'......

[muskienick]

The discussion on UD is largely well balanced and posters have done well sharing both the down side and upside of UD joining. But what I find fascinating is the vitriol aimed at UD from every Xavier backer on this board. It's to the point when I see an X somewhere in the moniker I know the tone of the poster's comments before reading them. It makes me hope for an eventual UD invite if for no other reason that this kind of passion & natural rivalry would be GREAT for the league. I'm not sensing that much in the games I catch on the tube. A personal observation- if UD ever joins the BE the sheer passion of the school toward college basketball will prove be an asset to the league.... and don't count out the impact that a BE affiliation will mean to the UD's recruiting and additional $$ resources provided to the BB program. Something tells me that concerns many X backers. But unnecessarily so as you have a great program.[/]

Please. We all know how UD fans feel about Xavier. The crap you guys post on UDPride is hilarious.

Otherwise, UD was in the A10 -it only got into the A10 with Xavier's help - with Xavier for many years, with Xavier dominating UD in every regard but home attendance. UD getting into the Big East isn't a concern at all, when it comes to competitive reasons.

UD is a good school and I understand its fan base takes pride in its basketball program, but you're looking at this through UD rose-colored glasses. There are people here who believe, realistically or otherwise, that events over time could lead UCONN to place the interests of its basketball program over those of its football program. UCONN is only one example of a thought process that emphasizes a more open minded and patient view towards having better options reveal themselves. UD simply does not presently offer a compelling case for its inclusion in the Big East.

There is a lot of money and prestige at stake with this new Big East. Expansion, if it happens at all, will occur very carefully.

The odds of UConn downsizing its football program to place even greater emphasis on basketball are probably 95% against to 5% for. But that is enough for me to want us to save a place for the Huskies for at least the next 5 years or so. With Louisville going to the ACC next year, Rutgers moving to the B1G, and Cincy wanting out of the Conference so badly that they have hired the guy who talked the PAC 12 into taking Colorado. Heck, if he get the PAC 12 to accept the somewhat recently bad FB program and traditionally-bad BB program of the Buffaloes, he might be able to get the Big 12 to accept the much better Bearcats' FB and BB programs (thus making WVU feel less like they are out in "right field" all by themselves). Even with UCincy remaining in their current depleted Conference, UConn must feel totally left out in the cold with virtually no one with whom to relate. Wikipedia lists UConn's main rivals as Louisville, UMass, Rutgers, and Syracuse, none of which will be in its Conference next year! Until then, I'd prefer the Big East to remain at ten or, if Fox Sports 1 demands an earlier expansion, I would limit it to SLU and go with a 20-game Conference round-robin schedule.

[RomainSato10]

So let's just toss butler out and replace them with ud then. butler hasn't shown they can win much In the BE. Let's ignore all recent achievements.

Just saying....