Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bill Marsh]

Dayton is perfect for the Big East. Every, year UD has a great non-conference RPI with huge top 50 BCS wins (something like 20-10 versus BCS teams the last 5-10 years). This year, neutral win Cal, neutral win Gonzaga, @GT, @Ole Miss, etc. Then the Flyers would come to Big East play with a good RPI like 30 and end up with a conference record of like 6-10 ending up with a RPI like 50. So the Big East teams would get 10 quality wins versus a top 50 Dayton team including some @Dayton bolstering the NCAA tourney resumes of bubble teams. Perfect for Providence, Xavier, St. John's, and Georgetown this year. They would all get another top 50/60 win and might be the difference for 1-2 Big East bubble teams.

The Big East also would get 13k fans a game at Dayton, top 10 per capita TV college market, and 1,000+ Dayton fans at the Big East tourney a year (Dayton travels well which is important for away games and the tourney). And again most importantly, Dayton has consistently been top 100 RPI and probably averaged 40-60 over the past 10 years so some good quality wins for the rest of the conference.

BTW, I have not done the analysis, but my guess is Dayton has an average RPI the last 10 years in the middle of the pack of the Big East. If you added St. Louis and Dayton, my guess is Dayton's ending RPI would be about 5th-7th in the league. They have been on the wrong side of the bubble 3-4x the last 10 years.

Dayton is a terrible fit for the Bid East. It screams mid-major and has a terrible modern day track record. It's wins in its terrible OOC schedules against BCS programs have not been "huge."

PER CAPITA is not what we need to consider when it comes to television markets, so that is a terrible argument.

IF we expand - there certainly is no guaranty that will even happen - then SLU most likely steps in initially. #12 isn't clear at this point, but Dayton certainly isn't it.

If not Dayton, then whom do you favor?

[ruechalgrin]

Dayton is a terrible fit for the Bid East. It screams mid-major and has a terrible modern day track record. It's wins in its terrible OOC schedules against BCS programs have not been "huge."

PER CAPITA is not what we need to consider when it comes to television markets, so that is a terrible argument.

IF we expand - there certainly is no guaranty that will even happen - then SLU most likely steps in initially. #12 isn't clear at this point, but Dayton certainly isn't it.[/quote]

XuDash, go do the math the last 10 years on Xavier's OOC RPI and Dayton's and compare wins/losses versus BCS schools and their RPIs during that time. You will be surprised what you find ... Dayton has been much better OOC, but Xavier has crushed Dayton in conference, in the conference tourney, and of course the NCAAs. BTW, my post was a little tongue in cheek about Dayton's good RPI OOC and bad conference play. Anyway, you missed that. Xavier was clearly the right choice over Dayton for the BE and I hope the BE does well, but you should be a little more factual and a little less inflammatory with your posts.

BTW, you should care about per capita and actually tv sets watching. Dayton actually has a pretty high # of tv sets watching NCAA games (more than St. Louis and other cities) -- market size is great and important but most important is actual number of sets watching the games.

[HoosierPal]

but Xavier has crushed Dayton in conference, in the conference tourney, and of course the NCAAs. BTW, my post was a little tongue in cheek about Dayton's good RPI OOC and bad conference play.

BTW, you should care about per capita and actually tv sets watching. Dayton actually has a pretty high # of tv sets watching NCAA games (more than St. Louis and other cities) -- market size is great and important but most important is actual number of sets watching the games.

I took a stroll through the Xavier Media Guide, and Dayton leads the all time X-D series 85-75. Last 10 meetings are 6-4 X. Hardly a crushing in my book. My gosh, wouldn't Xavier relish the chance to continue this long standing (160 game) series? Talk about a rivalry.

On TV market size, I wonder how many TV's in metro Chicago tune in to the Big East? I would bet Omaha has more actual TV's watching Big East than Chicago. And I would bet more TV's in Dayton watch A-10 basketball than BE in Chitown. Just a guess though.

[gosports1]

could a round robin still be done by going to 11 with slu? Would that be too demanding? I think thats the issue. The appeal of 10 and home and home was greater than adding slu and no clear cut choice for #12

[BEX]

I took a stroll through the Xavier Media Guide, and Dayton leads the all time X-D series 85-75. Last 10 meetings are 6-4 X. Hardly a crushing in my book. My gosh, wouldn't Xavier relish the chance to continue this long standing (160 game) series? Talk about a rivalry.

33-18 X regular season in recent history since they've played for the trophy and stopped shooting underhanded. .. UD compiled their lead in the 50's. No UD's wins since 1981 in Cincinnati. Crushing.

[RomainSato10]

I took a stroll through the Xavier Media Guide, and Dayton leads the all time X-D series 85-75. Last 10 meetings are 6-4 X. Hardly a crushing in my book. My gosh, wouldn't Xavier relish the chance to continue this long standing (160 game) series? Talk about a rivalry.

33-18 X regular season in recent history since they've played for the trophy and stopped shooting underhanded. .. UD compiled their lead in the 50's. No UD's wins since 1981 in Cincinnati. Crushing.

X went a few years (under Miller I believe) that they beat them 3 times in a year.

[DudeAnon]

I like how Dayton fans hate the claim that they are Xavier's little brother but guess who they hired for a coach? A Xavier Coach's little brother.

For real though, Dayton always has a talented team (more talent than X this year) but they have been cursed for the past 20 years for some reason. If they could hire a real coach there is no reason they can't escape the mid-major status.

[BEX]

They've always had some offensive talent for sure. Unfortunately, they can't play any defense.

[GibsoniaPA]

The discussion on UD is largely well balanced and posters have done well sharing both the down side and upside of UD joining. But what I find fascinating is the vitriol aimed at UD from every Xavier backer on this board. It's to the point when I see an X somewhere in the moniker I know the tone of the poster's comments before reading them. It makes me hope for an eventual UD invite if for no other reason that this kind of passion & natural rivalry would be GREAT for the league. I'm not sensing that much in the games I catch on the tube. A personal observation- if UD ever joins the BE the sheer passion of the school toward college basketball will prove be an asset to the league.... and don't count out the impact that a BE affiliation will mean to the UD's recruiting and additional $$ resources provided to the BB program. Something tells me that concerns many X backers. But unnecessarily so as you have a great program.

[Hibbs]

VCU or stay at ten. No one outside of Dayton, Ohio would be excited about adding Dayton.