Big East teams hurting each other; too much depth?

[stever20]

I think one major thing that folks are saying that drives me crazy is that it's a guarantee that FS1 will grow like ESPN. It's not. Right now, it's a niche channel. If they don't get mainstream content fast, it's always going to be that UFC/Boxing/Motocross/Nascar channel. It's a lot different era now compared to back when ESPN was launched- ESPN didn't have an ESPN-like gorilla to compete against. I'm not saying FS1 can't be a sucess, but it's no guarantee by any stretch.

Also- Cable sports is a LOT different than especially cable news- and even network. Fox got the NFL yes, and then got lucky when American Idol came around. For cable news, everyone covers the same news events. But for sports- you have to have the TV Rights. IMO, Fox came around 2-3 years too late as now, almost all of the big events are locked up for years to come.

As far as recruiting is concerned, let's see how things are looking in 2-3 years. 1 year is nice, but after everything has settled down will be when the true impact of everything will be felt.

As far as the coaches, I think in a lot of ways, the era of the dominant coaches is over. Once Boeheim, Coach K, Williams, Pitino leave- I don't think you're going to see the dominant coaches like we used to see. Different era than before.

[DudeAnon]

http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... other.html

The A-10 forum is having a great discussion on this same article.

Their conclusion on the Big East was:
1) We need to soften up our OOC schedule
2) We are hurt by not having 12 teams. (Less teams at the top)

At first I thought it was ridiculous. But they make a lot of good points.

[MackNova]

In one paragraph you trashed the core recruiting pitch that every coach in the league used this year for signing the best per/team class in our first season.

- The BE just signed a 10yr, $500M media deal with FOX and you don't understand how TV exposure is trending well. 2 years ago no one saw this coming except you I guess. Ask Uconn, Memphis, BC, WVU, Wichita st or VCU if they would like this tv expsore for their bball programs?

Are we really comparing Big East teams to Wichita State and VCU? Seriously? The Big East is supposed to be a major conference, now we're bragging about having more TV exposure than MVC and A-10 teams? And UConn, Memphis and BC get plenty of exposure on ESPN and other outlets.

- No one watches FS1 because it didn't exist 9 months ago. The same thing was true about the current worldwide leader in sports not that long ago. I could picture you back then - nobody's gonna watch the channel with all the dirt bike & speed boat racing. Are you making a bold prediction that FS1 won't be successful going forward? Fox OTA & news have overcome similar hurdles (w/less than reputable means IMO- Rupert) to become successful.

You said television is "trending well." There is zero evidence of this. Right now, FS1 gets embarrassing ratings. That should improve as the network gains a foothold, but it has a long, long way to go to reach ESPN and ESPN2.

- No one cares about coaches??? How about recruits, their families, AAU/hs coaches, boosters, alumni, etc.? Also why do you consider only the coaches that have made it to a F4 as "good coaches" in the league? If a coach can recruit he's already a good coach, if he can win he's a great coach too. Many programs have good X's & O's guys but they can't get the talent. Right now BU has the "worst" class of recruits/transfers (SJU doesn't count so far this yr), yet they are still bringing in Kelan Martin who is going to be a star IMO.

I was clearly implying nobody cares about THESE coaches. Unless you think people are watching basketball games to see Ed Cooley, Kevin Willard, Steve Lavin, Oliver Purnell, Chris Mack and Brandon Miller. The only coaches who get ratings and attention because of who they are are guys like Coach K and Boeheim. Obviously, coaches matter, but you really overrate them in terms of improving the league profile. There are good coaches in this league, but it's not like people watch these games because they want to see Jay Wright or Buzz Williams coach.

- How will money help BE as a whole get respect?? Really...how about better facilities for its programs, more fundraising ability for them, and the ability to hire better coaches & assistant coaches to be in the league. The original profile of the BE was founded on the strength of coaches, many who actually became great while in the BE during those early years, others went elsewhere & became great later (Pitino) and its great players over the years. The dominant coaching presence continued all the way until the end of the oBE. The same thing can happen with this group too.

Like I said, this is wishful thinking until there is proof otherwise.

Basically you're 2nd paragraph is like "no kidding" who doesn't want all the glory. But this league isn't owed that status, the BE is going to have to re-group and earn that. I can't hep it if you don't see that's exactly what they have been doing (and doing well) post the defections & since partnering with FOX. You used Cincy as an example, you must don't know how long it has taken Cronin to get Cincy to this level, pretty much the majority of the time in the BE was a struggle to become Top 10 for Cincy. Cronin's on record plenty saying as much over the years. The trick is not to get caught up in the short term only. Yet you keep talking about this moment in time (no one watches FS1, there's no Syracuse in the league, etc.) but everything about realignment is focused on the long term.

Probably shouldn't have included Cincinnati in that list. Could have included UConn or West Virginia most years on that list instead.

Trust me, I get that realignment is in the long term. But I disagree with you thinking that Fox Sports 1 and coaches and money will make/keep this a nationally relevant league. It's all about WINNING. Get teams into the Top 25, so they get more national exposure. That's what's hurting the league right now: there are a bunch of pretty good games between competitive teams, but there are only 2 teams that have any chance to make noise. There has been one game all season that is appointment television for basketball fans: Villanova vs Creighton, and that was obviously a dud.

If the league were respected more nationally, Creighton would have been in the Top 25 earlier and Xavier would have gotten more votes when it deserved it. Neither got what it deserved. The league will have to earn that. It will earn that one way: winning.

[TheHall]

Trust me, I get that realignment is in the long term. But I disagree with you thinking that Fox Sports 1 and coaches and money will make/keep this a nationally relevant league. It's all about WINNING. Get teams into the Top 25, so they get more national exposure. That's what's hurting the league right now: there are a bunch of pretty good games between competitive teams, but there are only 2 teams that have any chance to make noise. There has been one game all season that is appointment television for basketball fans: Villanova vs Creighton, and that was obviously a dud.

If the league were respected more nationally, Creighton would have been in the Top 25 earlier and Xavier would have gotten more votes when it deserved it. Neither got what it deserved. The league will have to earn that. It will earn that one way: winning.

Don't take my word for it, go check the reports from all the recruits these coaches have signed and are pursuing. They all mention the coaches in this league that they can't wait to play for & the tv exposure along with MSG, bball priority & the big market exposure. Mack it's the classic chicken & the egg. I'm saying getting those things (Fox, $$, etc) lead to top 25 rankings. These rankings don't just drop out of the sky. Again everything about right now I agree with, but who cares its our first year...hell Butler lost is superstar coach and it's best player in the summer. What did expect out of them this year? Providence lost it's entire freshman class & Dunn, Hoyas with Whittington & Smith, Seton Hall's injuries etc. Nova & CU (except for Gibbs) hasn't had many similar issues and they are excelling I get it.

[stever20]

I just don't get this who cares it's our first year attitude. First years are important- sets the tone for a long time, especially in a situation like we are in. You act like it's going to be so easy to fix things if we only got 2-3 teams in the tournament this year. It's not. Perception takes a long time to fix.

And, also, I'm sorry but being on Fox doesn't guarantee top 25 rankings. I mean look right now at how much respect Memphis, UConn, and even SMU are getting in the polls. Do you really think that SMU should be ahead of Xavier right now? Probably not. But because they've had big ESPN games vs UConn and Memphis, they are. Fox is still extremely unproven in sports.

Also- recruiting is more than just 1 year. Let's see where we are in 3-4 years before we say for sure that recruiting is fine.

[TheHall]

The enthusiasm that most people who actually like the BE have shown was never based on huge expectations for this season. There was (actually still is) a chance for something amazing to happen this year but that's all a chance. Anyone who came into this season expecting the BE to dominate cbb was smoking something. This league desn't have to apologize for being the 3rd or 4th best league only 1 year after losing several high major programs. No league lost more in the last year (including Brad Stevens) so I see this year is in that context. Most realistic fans are still optimistic about the league and it's future, regardless of what the debbie-downers are preaching. Complaining about having more money & tv exposure wow!

[hoyahooligan]

I just don't get this who cares it's our first year attitude. First years are important- sets the tone for a long time, especially in a situation like we are in. You act like it's going to be so easy to fix things if we only got 2-3 teams in the tournament this year. It's not. Perception takes a long time to fix.

And, also, I'm sorry but being on Fox doesn't guarantee top 25 rankings. I mean look right now at how much respect Memphis, UConn, and even SMU are getting in the polls. Do you really think that SMU should be ahead of Xavier right now? Probably not. But because they've had big ESPN games vs UConn and Memphis, they are. Fox is still extremely unproven in sports.

Also- recruiting is more than just 1 year. Let's see where we are in 3-4 years before we say for sure that recruiting is fine.

It would take extraordinary circumstances to only get 2 teams in the dance. I think that's impossible. I think 3 is the minimum. I think we get at least 4 teams in and I would not be surprised if we got 5 in when all is said and done. I think we're closer to 5 at this point than 3.

[stever20]

I just don't get this who cares it's our first year attitude. First years are important- sets the tone for a long time, especially in a situation like we are in. You act like it's going to be so easy to fix things if we only got 2-3 teams in the tournament this year. It's not. Perception takes a long time to fix.

And, also, I'm sorry but being on Fox doesn't guarantee top 25 rankings. I mean look right now at how much respect Memphis, UConn, and even SMU are getting in the polls. Do you really think that SMU should be ahead of Xavier right now? Probably not. But because they've had big ESPN games vs UConn and Memphis, they are. Fox is still extremely unproven in sports.

Also- recruiting is more than just 1 year. Let's see where we are in 3-4 years before we say for sure that recruiting is fine.

It would take extraordinary circumstances to only get 2 teams in the dance. I think that's impossible. I think 3 is the minimum. I think we get at least 4 teams in and I would not be surprised if we got 5 in when all is said and done. I think we're closer to 5 at this point than 3.

3 is very possible.. And, I totally think 3 is way closer than 5. Nova, Creighton, and Xavier I think are pretty much ok. Providence is in deep trouble, especially if they lose to both Xavier and Georgetown this weekend. That'd be 9 losses and then 2 more are likely coming to Nova and Creighton. PC's OOC schedule was so weak, they're the team we don't want on the bubble. Georgetown still needs at least 5 more wins- it's possible- but still not a guarantee by any stretch. Marquette needs at least 7 more wins. For us to get 5 Providence has to get in and either Georgetown/Marquette/St John's has to come thru(I actually think PC is the one that is likely to not get it there).

I don't think folks expected the BE to dominate, but to struggle the way we have this year is not good. We may be the 4th best conference- but getting 3 teams in would be not a good thing by any stretch. The group of Marquette, Georgetown, and Butler are further down this year than they have been in years. St John's didn't rise to the occasion this year yet. DePaul is well, DePaul. Seton Hall has done better but still have those incredibly bad losses in December. If it weren't for Providence doing better than anyone expected given their losses, it'd be even worse of a year.

[BEwannabe]

So if the Big East is trending toward 4-5 then how do you see the A10 trending? 5-6?

Looks more like 3-4 Big East, 4-5 A10 to me. And Both conferences better hope things break the right way as the season winds down.

[Bluejay]

I think one major thing that folks are saying that drives me crazy is that it's a guarantee that FS1 will grow like ESPN. It's not. Right now, it's a niche channel. If they don't get mainstream content fast, it's always going to be that UFC/Boxing/Motocross/Nascar channel. It's a lot different era now compared to back when ESPN was launched- ESPN didn't have an ESPN-like gorilla to compete against. I'm not saying FS1 can't be a sucess, but it's no guarantee by any stretch.

Also- Cable sports is a LOT different than especially cable news- and even network. Fox got the NFL yes, and then got lucky when American Idol came around. For cable news, everyone covers the same news events. But for sports- you have to have the TV Rights. IMO, Fox came around 2-3 years too late as now, almost all of the big events are locked up for years to come.

As far as recruiting is concerned, let's see how things are looking in 2-3 years. 1 year is nice, but after everything has settled down will be when the true impact of everything will be felt.

As far as the coaches, I think in a lot of ways, the era of the dominant coaches is over. Once Boeheim, Coach K, Williams, Pitino leave- I don't think you're going to see the dominant coaches like we used to see. Different era than before.

Recruits and their families don't care about TV ratings; they care about TV availability. The fact that every game is on TV is all that matters to them.