Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[notkirkcameron]

All we can do as Billiken fans is hope the good times keep rollin'.

Keep on keeping on. Continued success for SLU is only good news for basketball-first conferences. Hopefully this is the year SLU gets over the hump and makes it to the Sweet 16. They will get an invite from either the Big East or the Valley someday. This whole discussion reminds me of a "Coach's forum" event held on campus where I was fortunate enough to meet and listen to the late Rick Majerus when he was coaching at SLU, and I was a 2L there. In hindsight, I realize now that Coach Majerus was incredibly prescient.

Coach Majerus was not pleased with the situation of the A-10. "It's a conference that doesn't make any sense. We have our league office in Newport News, VA, but we don't have a team there, we have our meetings in Florida, but we don't have a team there, we have 14 teams and one west of the Mississippi, but we're still the Atlantic 10." He compared SLU's decision to go to the A-10 with "the decision to send troops to Vietnam" because "it was based on information that wasn't entirely accurate." He said the long travel from St. Louis to the East coast cities put SLU at a competitive disadvantage, and that the SLU alumni "don't care about beating Rhode Island or Fordham or St. Bonaventure." He even challenged the group of 50 SLU undergrads who came to this "Ask the coach" event to name all (then-) 14 teams in the A-10. It took a group of 50 students almost 5 minutes to come up with them all. "And you guys are the die-hards," Coach said.

Coach Majerus' position then (This is probably around spring of 2009) was that SLU needed to get out of the A-10, and into the Missouri Valley, and "camp out there until the football schools and the basketball schools in the Big East break up."

[Bill Marsh]

Personally I'drather see VCU and UMass, but I get the thinking with St Louis.

Why UMass? Is it their 14 straight years of not making the NCAA tournament that entices you? Or is it that FBS football team? please tell

Only trying to figure out your criteria for teams that should be considered. I'm never negative on teams that make sense. What bothers me is when people contradict themselves by saying recent success matters then promoting a team who hasn't made an NCAA tournament since the 90's. Then throw in the fact they have football, I just don't understand. At least VCU is entertaining to dispute, UMass is just ridiculous.

Well, I explained it in another post a week or two ago, which you chose to mock for being too long. Why should I explain it again when you didn't read the explanation the first time?

As I said above, I understand the interest in St Louis, but my personal preference is for UMass. It's just a personal preference, not a big deal. The reasons have been explained previously.

[BillikensWin]

Majerus took several shots at the A-10 because he was a fan of less travel. Towards the end, he was a little more respectful towards the league.

The Big East quote is pretty wild when the time is considered. Like I've said, I don't think the Big East expands b/c of RR scheduling every year.

[BillikensWin]

Bill Marsh,

The georgraphy argument is interesting, but I think geography went out the window a long time ago in college sports.

[cm5yz6]

Why UMass? Is it their 14 straight years of not making the NCAA tournament that entices you? Or is it that FBS football team? please tell

Only trying to figure out your criteria for teams that should be considered. I'm never negative on teams that make sense. What bothers me is when people contradict themselves by saying recent success matters then promoting a team who hasn't made an NCAA tournament since the 90's. Then throw in the fact they have football, I just don't understand. At least VCU is entertaining to dispute, UMass is just ridiculous.

Well, I explained it in another post a week or two ago, which you chose to mock for being too long. Why should I explain it again when you didn't read the explanation the first time?

As I said above, I understand the interest in St Louis, but my personal preference is for UMass. It's just a personal preference, not a big deal. The reasons have been explained previously.

Alright. No problem. If its just a personal preference - you know, just because you like them then that makes sense. I think Marshall is cool, that Marco mascot has always been a favorite. I'd probably go SLU & Marshall as, like I said, I happen to like Marshall.

[senditinjerome]

Coach Majerus' position then (This is probably around spring of 2009) was that SLU needed to get out of the A-10, and into the Missouri Valley, and "camp out there until the football schools and the basketball schools in the Big East break up."

Majerus was full of hot air on this one...Here is a comparison of the Valley vs the A-10 in terms of # of bids since the Valley's high-water mark of 4 in 2006:

MVC A-10
2007: 2 2
2008: 1 3
2009: 1 3
2010: 1 3
2011: 1 3
2012: 2 4
2013: 2 5

SLU def made the right call in 2005. Looks even better now that Creighton is gone. If Wichita runs the table and goes undefeated, it only hurts the Valley more...The pundits will say: "Look at how weak their league is; of course they went undefeated. They replaced Creighton with Loyola, who hasn't made the tourney since 1985."

The only argument is that since the A-10 was/is the bigger league (14, and 16 last year vs. 10 for the Valley), it stands to reason that the A-10 should get more teams in. However, on selection Sunday, no one cares about how many teams you get in relative to your league size....it's how many teams you actually get in, period.

[notkirkcameron]

Majerus wasn't talking about how many teams they get in the tournament. He was talking about two things:

1.) How SLU was disadvantaged due to extended travel to the East Coast (at the time, Butler had not yet joined the A-10, so Dayton and Xavier were the only other A-10 schools west of Pittsburgh). Accordingly, SLU would benefit from reduced travel to schools that basically form a halo around St. Louis, and

2.) His belief that Saint Louis alumni would care more about league games against schools they had actually heard of and who had strong alumni presences in St. Louis (Bradley, Creighton, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, SMS, etc.) than, at best, similarly situated schools from halfway across the country (St. Joe's, Fordham, UMass, George Washington, Duquesne, etc.)....at least until it became feasible to join a post-breakup Big East, and schedule games against major programs like Georgetown and Villanova (and potentially Notre Dame), and old C-USA rivals DePaul and Marquette.

[Bill Marsh]

The number: Zero

Number of NCAA Tournament victories for UMass with someone other than John Calipari coaching them.

Number of times VCU has been past the first weekend of the Tournament outside of 2011's Final Four run. See also: 1.) fluke 2.) bottle, lightning in a.

The fact that you don't respect the histories of these two programs reflects on you, not the programs. The VCU history, which includes NCAA tournament appearances in each of the past 4 decades, has been posted many times, but UMass has not.

UMass has great basketball history, dating back 50 years. It's more than the Calipari era. They were a power in the old Yankee Conference, winning 9 conference titles. In the '60's and '70's. Unfortunately, the NCAA, which was always biased against schools in the East, took away the conference's tournament bid at that time, eliminating their opportunity to win NCAA tournament games. Instead they went to the NIT, which was still a big deal back then and won tournament games there. The program is also about more than just Marcus Camby. It is also the program of legendary Hall of Famer, Doctor J. It is the program that launched the careers of Rick Pitino and Al Skinner

[bmorex]

There are Zero direct nonstop flights from Spokane WA to JFK. None. No nonstop flights to Omaha, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, DC or Chicago either.The Men's BB team charters everywhere, but that is it. The rest of Gonzaga's athletic teams would be doomed to 6 to 8 hour flights EACH WAY, three or four times a year. No way a University President would ever place students at such a disadvantage.

The CLOSEST WCC school to Gonzaga is Portland. Five hours away. Is that a fact that only the men's hoops team charters? I find that hard to believe considering the distances that Gonzaga has to cover in the WCC.

The West Coast/western states are much more vast and far less compact than the cities in the Northeast.

They typically would have the non-revenue sports fly commercial flights. On rare occasions they could also bus. For example, a Tennis game vs Washington State in Pullman might be via bus or van.

Sorry Hoosier, didn't see this until now. The problem is that Gonzaga isn't bussing its teams to conference games. Sure, some games to university's in Washington (maybe Idaho/Oregon...honestly I'm not knowledgeable about the distance between cities of the Northwest), but most of the WCC is in central California. So they're still flying.

[Bill Marsh]

Only trying to figure out your criteria for teams that should be considered. I'm never negative on teams that make sense. What bothers me is when people contradict themselves by saying recent success matters then promoting a team who hasn't made an NCAA tournament since the 90's. Then throw in the fact they have football, I just don't understand. At least VCU is entertaining to dispute, UMass is just ridiculous.

Well, I explained it in another post a week or two ago, which you chose to mock for being too long. Why should I explain it again when you didn't read the explanation the first time?

As I said above, I understand the interest in St Louis, but my personal preference is for UMass. It's just a personal preference, not a big deal. The reasons have been explained previously.

Alright. No problem. If its just a personal preference - you know, just because you like them then that makes sense. I think Marshall is cool, that Marco mascot has always been a favorite. I'd probably go SLU & Marshall as, like I said, I happen to like Marshall.

Thanks for your 2 cents. That's about all a comment like that is worth.