Tues 1/28 BE Game Thread (1 Game, SJU-CU).

[jaybydna]

There is no doubt that Creighton will miss their seniors, but while their recruiting isn't quite where they want it to be, they are still recruiting the kind of players they want for their system. Beyond that they've had very few "misses" he past couple of years. Next year's roster will be young in the front court, experienced in the back court, and I think it will be better than a lot of people imagine.

5: Artino - SR, Hanson - SO, Groselle - JR
- Overall the potential for a very good rotation at the 5. Artino is athletic and mobile. Hanson is bigger and more physical with a decent outside shot, very good athleticism and who seems to get position play in the post. Groselle is a 7-footer recovering from off season surgery, but who has started to show better mobility and post play.

4: Hanson - SO or Hegner - FR
- Hanson is mentioned above. Hegner is a similar style of player to McDermott in that he can play inside and out and is potentially a high skill stretch forward.

3: Dingman - SR, Harris - FR,
- Dingman came onto the team as a shooter/scorer, but this year has earned his minutes through tough D and rebounding. His shot has failed him for some reason (going from a 40% 3PT shooter to .257 this year... which is why SJs was laying off of him all night last night). Harris is a former PG who has passing skills, deep range and good athleticism

2: Brooks - SR, Milliken - JR (JUCO RS), Zierden - SO
- I'm expecting Brooks to start next year, but this is up in the air and likely a rotation. Brooks had one of his worst games last night, but has shown great ability to get into the paint and finish against just about everyone -- a great skill on a team of shooters. Milliken is redshirting (due to Gibbs' return) and is a good athlete shooter/scorer from JUCO. Zierden is a shooter in waiting who can do a bit of everything at guard including handling and passing.

1: Chatman - SR; Brooks - SR; Zierden - SO
- Chatman's a senior PG, Brooks is a SR as his backup, Zierden is the 3rd guy up. We will need a PG for the following year for sure.
Add in Leon Gilmore (top 150 wing player from Texas who I expect to play immediately) and Ronnie Harrell - 6-8 shooter and a high level recruit to be named and their talent level will be pretty good. They won't have a McDermott, but they will be a high skill bunch with shooters, passers and distributors all over the court and probably with more physical toughness in the paint. In particular watch for the development of Hanson and Hegner next year and look for Gilmore to play right off the bat.

I am not ready to talk about next year. I am still enjoying this one. That said, if this is really going to be a discussion, you forgot our leelee and harrell plus 2 more open ships. Plenty of room for a freshman to contribute. We will be mid-pack next year, but getting better all the way. EDIT: Oops, I see you mention them. Sorry.

[XU85]

I re-watched Doug's last shot several times because it was mind boggling how wide open he was. It was a shame for the Johnnies as they had been playing good defense, but there was a complete lapse as the defender was in the paint and Doug never went inside the 3-point arc. Then the defender jumped into him after he released the ball and should have been whistled for the foul.

[section202jay]

I re-watched Doug's last shot several times because it was mind boggling how wide open he was. It was a shame for the Johnnies as they had been playing good defense, but there was a complete lapse as the defender was in the paint and Doug never went inside the 3-point arc. Then the defender jumped into him after he released the ball and should have been whistled for the foul.

I was at the game and he didn't seem super open but thankfully he sank the shot for us. However, when I got home and saw the highlight I couldn't believe just how open he truly was. He pretty much just walked up there and caught the ball and shot it with relative ease.

[bman95]

Agreed with the BE and NCAA tourn determining how he is remembered in BE lore. Otto Porter was a 1st Team all American last year and he will be forgotten years from now if he hasn't been already. Allen Iverson was one of the best guards in all of basketball history in college and NBA, and in BE lore all people remember is Ray Allan's shot going in and Iverson's shot missing (As well as the classic reaction of the coaches) . HArd to believe that sfter all the amazing thing Iverson did at Gtown, this is the highlight of him that gets played 90% of the time. Keep hitting next until u get to #1 , it was an honor to be at that great game

http://www.lostlettermen.com/slideshow/ ... /tags/tag/

[ReynoldsWrap]

I don't understand. What's with the constant harping on the idea that Creighton won't be as good next year as they are this year? Who cares? Creighton fans are probably just sitting back and enjoying the hell out of this season and not even worrying about next season just yet.

And the idea that St. John's has just been unlucky and screwed by refs this year is laughable. Maybe they're marginally better than their current conference record would indicate, but come on, you can't blame a whole season on that stuff.

[JohnnyBoy]

I don't understand. What's with the constant harping on the idea that Creighton won't be as good next year as they are this year? Who cares? Creighton fans are probably just sitting back and enjoying the hell out of this season and not even worrying about next season just yet.

And the idea that St. John's has just been unlucky and screwed by refs this year is laughable. Maybe they're marginally better than their current conference record would indicate, but come on, you can't blame a whole season on that stuff.

St. John's hasn't been unlucky? We had the #2 recruiting class a few years back and about 3 big time players decommitted or were ruled ineligible. We had to fight tooth and nail just to get Sanchez 1 year after he was also ruled ineligible. The only true stud to come out of all of that recruiting was Moe Harkless who is currently a solid NBA player for the Magic. This team must have lost 5 or 6 games by 5 points or less including multiple ranked teams. If 1 more call or basket goes our way we are sitting here talking about SJ as a top 3 Big East team. But instead everything that could go wrong essentially has except injuries. That's bad luck. SJ is the college basketball equivalent of the Mets. Always seem to have lots of talent, but there is always a stink in Queens that never goes away no matter how talented the team. It's like a cycle of negativity that the players sense when they come here. I understand every team gets bad calls or no calls, but I've watched games all year and trying to be as unbiased as possible I haven't seen a team consistently screwed more (even at home) than SJ. In the 1st half Jordan literally barely bumped chests with a Creighton player and that was a quick 1st foul which led to him sitting down after getting a 2nd quickly. These things DO impact games. Creighton cannot stop Jordan when allowed to play nor can most Big East teams.

And the reason people ask if they will be good again after this year is because of this very simple fact: we did not bring Creighton in as a 1 year rental. Creighton is here for the long haul. So fans of C-7 squads are rightfully critical seeing that they lose every major scorer that allowed them to be a constant top 25 team the past 3 or 4 years. It's not taking jabs, it's being realistic. I think we will see quickly how much of a role coach McDermott plays. We will see if his son and other studs just made him look good raining 3's every game, or if he really has an eye for recruiting talent consistently. They are in for the long haul, so why not think in terms of the near future? It's natural. If you see red flags ahead, then why ignore them just to be nice? The way it is now this is a #20 team with the most talent they will ever have in the history of their program with Wragge, Gibbs, McDermott, etc. they can literally make 3's at will. When they want them they get them. Add to that the best scorer and pure shooter in the nation…and after all of that they are a #20 ish team. And that's also with a miracle shot at the end from NBA range and a few beneficial calls just to escape the now 2-6 SJ at home. If this is their peak and best case scenario, then that's scary considering they will lose EVERYTHING after this season. Not 1 player, not 2…every single major scorer including the POY. Look at Murray State after Canaan and co. left. Keep an eye on Wichita State after Early and co. leave. It's logical to question whether these teams can continue to compete at those levels without having their stars that put them on the map.

[SJUREDMEN85]

Jays fan put the SJU fan comments into perspective... It is frustration with a twinge of jealousy, pure and simple. Over the years you get to see a recurring theme of the fans from teams like SJU, SHU, and Rutgers (when we were all together). They point to being simply "unlucky" or that the "refs blew that for us." They say things like "if we weren't so unlucky at the end of our games we would be a Top BE team" without recognizing that games are in fact 40 minutes long and the good teams hunker down when they need to, and the bad teams find ways to lose. I guess luck had everything to do with a DM hitting a 20 footer to win the game, or when CU created a 18 pt lead. Ignore them. Part of their frustration is that, short a couple of flashes in the pan seasons, SJU has really struggled to resemble anything close to their glory years of Chris Mullin and Marc Jackson, 30 YEARS AGO. And then they see a team like CU come into the league and do so well--coupled with a year in which their own team had fallen WAY short of expectations--and you begin to understand where the vitriole comes from.

You guys should be proud b/c you have a tremendous team. They are fun to watch and play well as a team, and play in an electric atmosphere. All of those things can not be said of a team in SJU that is a proud, albeit lost program right now.

I was just about to type a post asking if St JOhns fans were always so insecure and whiny. Thank you for your classy post and for settling me down. Villanova fans, along with Xavier fans, have quickly become my favorites in this new conference.

SJU took everyone else out of the game and invited Doug to beat them all by himself. He did. Whenever an opponent has tried to play Doug all night without a double team, he's gone off for 35+.

Its sad that the actions of a few SJU fans completely ruined my plan to come here and complement the Johnnies team. Now my feelings are more in line with hoping they lose every remaining game.

Did you see me whine and bitch on here? That was all Johnnyboy and NJRedmen.
We got beat by maybe this year NPOY, Obekpa should have been up in his face but instead no one was by him. It`s kind of is funny.
So congrats

[Trifecta]

I don't understand. What's with the constant harping on the idea that Creighton won't be as good next year as they are this year? Who cares? Creighton fans are probably just sitting back and enjoying the hell out of this season and not even worrying about next season just yet.

And the idea that St. John's has just been unlucky and screwed by refs this year is laughable. Maybe they're marginally better than their current conference record would indicate, but come on, you can't blame a whole season on that stuff.

St. John's hasn't been unlucky? We had the #2 recruiting class a few years back and about 3 big time players decommitted or were ruled ineligible. We had to fight tooth and nail just to get Sanchez 1 year after he was also ruled ineligible. The only true stud to come out of all of that recruiting was Moe Harkless who is currently a solid NBA player for the Magic. This team must have lost 5 or 6 games by 5 points or less including multiple ranked teams. If 1 more call or basket goes our way we are sitting here talking about SJ as a top 3 Big East team. But instead everything that could go wrong essentially has except injuries. That's bad luck. SJ is the college basketball equivalent of the Mets. Always seem to have lots of talent, but there is always a stink in Queens that never goes away no matter how talented the team. It's like a cycle of negativity that the players sense when they come here. I understand every team gets bad calls or no calls, but I've watched games all year and trying to be as unbiased as possible I haven't seen a team consistently screwed more (even at home) than SJ. In the 1st half Jordan literally barely bumped chests with a Creighton player and that was a quick 1st foul which led to him sitting down after getting a 2nd quickly. These things DO impact games. Creighton cannot stop Jordan when allowed to play nor can most Big East teams.

And the reason people ask if they will be good again after this year is because of this very simple fact: we did not bring Creighton in as a 1 year rental. Creighton is here for the long haul. So fans of C-7 squads are rightfully critical seeing that they lose every major scorer that allowed them to be a constant top 25 team the past 3 or 4 years. It's not taking jabs, it's being realistic. I think we will see quickly how much of a role coach McDermott plays. We will see if his son and other studs just made him look good raining 3's every game, or if he really has an eye for recruiting talent consistently. They are in for the long haul, so why not think in terms of the near future? It's natural. If you see red flags ahead, then why ignore them just to be nice? The way it is now this is a #20 team with the most talent they will ever have in the history of their program with Wragge, Gibbs, McDermott, etc. they can literally make 3's at will. When they want them they get them. Add to that the best scorer and pure shooter in the nation…and after all of that they are a #20 ish team. And that's also with a miracle shot at the end from NBA range and a few beneficial calls just to escape the now 2-6 SJ at home. If this is their peak and best case scenario, then that's scary considering they will lose EVERYTHING after this season. Not 1 player, not 2…every single major scorer including the POY. Look at Murray State after Canaan and co. left. Keep an eye on Wichita State after Early and co. leave. It's logical to question whether these teams can continue to compete at those levels without having their stars that put them on the map.

You could start a vineyard with all your sour grapes over the past few days. Give it a rest and move on. Your team got beat on the road after giving a tremendous effort to come back from 18 down. You are harping on the same asinine points over and over and it's getting to be annoying. Your referee conspiracy theories are laughable...why would several different crews of refs have a specific agenda to screw St. John's? Is Lavin sleeping with their wives or daughters? You talk about a cycle of negativity but you are perpetuating it yourself! Instead of looking objectively at the strengths and weaknesses of your team, you have an excuse for everything.

So here it is, I'll give it to you objectively--talk about your "talent" all you want. I was terrified to play St. John's in the offseason because I know that the Jays have never seen a team that athletic in the Valley. But after watching them play since the rumors of the Big East split started last season, I've come to one conclusion: you are not a good basketball team. Great pieces, but put them together and you still aren't a great team. All the athleticism in the world, tremendous length at all positions, and zero basketball IQ. Maybe it's not the players and this reflects on Lavin (probably a bit of both). You can't just run and jump over everyone, you have to be able to pass, shoot, learn fundamentals, read defenses, play helpside and rotate, and most importantly you can't collapse mentally in tough games. St. John's is suspect in all those areas.

Everything you call "unlucky" I call basketball...things happen. Decommits, eligibility issues, injuries; all teams will experience this to some extent so for you act like SJU is the only team that has to deal with this comes off as whining. Great, you had a #2 recruiting class. Maybe you should try to find role players and complimentary pieces instead just reading down a list and finding guys with 5 stars after their name and throwing them all together. And if they can't qualify, maybe Lavin should weigh academics and grades more heavily before offering borderline qualifiers. As for losing all these close games against ranked teams and claiming the difference is 1 call here or there, why are you in the position in the first place? It's a 40 minute game and if you take care of business you want have to worry about one call. Either put teams away, don't get in a huge hole, or become tougher mentally at the end of games. For all the tough losses SJU has, how do you explain it's performances against terrible teams? Quit playing up and down to the level of your competition.

I'm not even going to worry about the things you said about Creighton because I'm enjoying the ride this season. You claim you were beaten by a "miracle shot" (which was actually an open look due to piss poor coaching and defense, but same diff right?). You say this is Creighton's best team ever (arguable but probable) but say we've peaked at #20? First of all, the polls are fickle and don't mean much anyways. I think everyone knows that Creighton is underrated and the all advanced metrics support this. And I love how you spend all you energy to argue that St. John's can play with anyone if they weren't unlucky, but then you devalue your own team by basically say LOLZ OMG YOU ALMOST LOST TO A 2-6 TEAM UR SO BAD. Which is it? Creighton isn't a top team because they struggled with a 2-6 team, or St John's is a great team with a string of bad luck? If it's the latter like you've said ad nauseum, then Creighton got a good win against a "should be top 3" team in the Big East! But you keep whining and talking out of both sides of your mouth. I'm done.

Bye.

[Jet915]

I don't understand. What's with the constant harping on the idea that Creighton won't be as good next year as they are this year? Who cares? Creighton fans are probably just sitting back and enjoying the hell out of this season and not even worrying about next season just yet.

And the idea that St. John's has just been unlucky and screwed by refs this year is laughable. Maybe they're marginally better than their current conference record would indicate, but come on, you can't blame a whole season on that stuff.

St. John's hasn't been unlucky? We had the #2 recruiting class a few years back and about 3 big time players decommitted or were ruled ineligible. We had to fight tooth and nail just to get Sanchez 1 year after he was also ruled ineligible. The only true stud to come out of all of that recruiting was Moe Harkless who is currently a solid NBA player for the Magic. This team must have lost 5 or 6 games by 5 points or less including multiple ranked teams. If 1 more call or basket goes our way we are sitting here talking about SJ as a top 3 Big East team. But instead everything that could go wrong essentially has except injuries. That's bad luck. SJ is the college basketball equivalent of the Mets. Always seem to have lots of talent, but there is always a stink in Queens that never goes away no matter how talented the team. It's like a cycle of negativity that the players sense when they come here. I understand every team gets bad calls or no calls, but I've watched games all year and trying to be as unbiased as possible I haven't seen a team consistently screwed more (even at home) than SJ. In the 1st half Jordan literally barely bumped chests with a Creighton player and that was a quick 1st foul which led to him sitting down after getting a 2nd quickly. These things DO impact games. Creighton cannot stop Jordan when allowed to play nor can most Big East teams.

And the reason people ask if they will be good again after this year is because of this very simple fact: we did not bring Creighton in as a 1 year rental. Creighton is here for the long haul. So fans of C-7 squads are rightfully critical seeing that they lose every major scorer that allowed them to be a constant top 25 team the past 3 or 4 years. It's not taking jabs, it's being realistic. I think we will see quickly how much of a role coach McDermott plays. We will see if his son and other studs just made him look good raining 3's every game, or if he really has an eye for recruiting talent consistently. They are in for the long haul, so why not think in terms of the near future? It's natural. If you see red flags ahead, then why ignore them just to be nice? The way it is now this is a #20 team with the most talent they will ever have in the history of their program with Wragge, Gibbs, McDermott, etc. they can literally make 3's at will. When they want them they get them. Add to that the best scorer and pure shooter in the nation…and after all of that they are a #20 ish team. And that's also with a miracle shot at the end from NBA range and a few beneficial calls just to escape the now 2-6 SJ at home. If this is their peak and best case scenario, then that's scary considering they will lose EVERYTHING after this season. Not 1 player, not 2…every single major scorer including the POY. Look at Murray State after Canaan and co. left. Keep an eye on Wichita State after Early and co. leave. It's logical to question whether these teams can continue to compete at those levels without having their stars that put them on the map.

You guys should probably worry about how you guys get top level recruits who have the same skillset and ccan't play well together. We won't be as good next year, but people always thought we would take a huge step back after we lost Korver, Funk, Tolliver yet we haven't yet and now we are recruiting in the Big East.

[Bluejay]

And the reason people ask if they will be good again after this year is because of this very simple fact: we did not bring Creighton in as a 1 year rental.

So, when is St John's going to start carrying a little freight in the conference? A quick search of the standings reveals that SJU is presently tied at 8th and only a half game OUT OF LAST PLACE. You have an embarrassingly ugly 2-6 conference record. Two of those losses have come against schools that were not in power conferences last year, yet you constantly proclaim SJU to be above "mid majors". I suspect a neutral observer would think that you have an unreasonably elevated sense of self worth. I hate to break it to you and other St John's fans, but when fans of Creighton, Xavier and Butler talked about how excited they were to get Big East schools on their home floor before the move was finalized, we were talking about the Georgetowns, Villanovas, and Marquettes. I sincerely doubt that any of the "new three" were sitting around pining for games against St Johns. Sorry to be so blunt, but those are the facts.

Stop worrying about the future of the teams that are ABOVE you in the standings and start worrying about what you need to do to BECOME one of those teams at the top of the standings.