Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[BillikensWin]

If "the A-10 is their ceiling", you just basically said none of those schools have any reason to field programs.

Y'all are better than that.

I don't see how that means what you think it means. It just means there's no other conference the Big East has to worry about poaching the best A-10 teams. So not sure why that means you guys shouldn't field programs unless that's a reflection of your own pessimism about the A10.

It's more the fact that the "ceiling" for the programs mentioned is a conference that is widely considered mid-major. If that's the top end, is it worth it?

[aughnanure]

I'm sure the UMass, SLU, VCU, Richmond, etc. supporters will disagree with me, but I think what this thread has revealed is that there are really no programs out there who scream OH MAN WE GOTTA HAVE THEM!
There's no program out there that successfully hits 1.) consistent NCAA success, 2.) large or comparable media market, 3.) engaged fan base, 4.) No FBS Football, 5.) Academic/institutional fit, and 6.) Geographic relative cohesion. Every suggested program misses on at least one of those.

So at the end of the day, there really aren't any programs that justify watering down what the Big East has right now (institutional cohesion, 3-5 Tournament teams every year, double round-robin).

......GONZAGA

Hey, who said that?

[aughnanure]

If "the A-10 is their ceiling", you just basically said none of those schools have any reason to field programs.

Y'all are better than that.

I don't see how that means what you think it means. It just means there's no other conference the Big East has to worry about poaching the best A-10 teams. So not sure why that means you guys shouldn't field programs unless that's a reflection of your own pessimism about the A10.

It's more the fact that the "ceiling" for the programs mentioned is a conference that is widely considered mid-major. If that's the top end, is it worth it?

Did everyone in the A10 already forget about Xavier?

[BillikensWin]

I don't see how that means what you think it means. It just means there's no other conference the Big East has to worry about poaching the best A-10 teams. So not sure why that means you guys shouldn't field programs unless that's a reflection of your own pessimism about the A10.

It's more the fact that the "ceiling" for the programs mentioned is a conference that is widely considered mid-major. If that's the top end, is it worth it?[/quote]

Did everyone in the A10 already forget about Xavier?[/quote]


Xavier is a Big East school. They "topped out".
The Big East is considered by basketball fans as a "destination league". It's where schools who haven't sold their souls to football aspire to be. I don't think the national perception of the A-10 (or any other league below the Big East) is that it's a destination.

[BillikensWin]

I guess the endgame thought for me is this:

Is it possible to be happy where one is at when there's something better out there?

[Xudash]

Any expansion needs to be a game-changing program, not expansion for expansion's sake

1.) The Big Ten kept its membership constant for 40 years, and only added one team, who was a national power, Penn State.
2.) The SEC kept its membership constant for 25 years before it grabbed Arkansas and South Carolina to get to 12 and stage a football championship game.
3.) The ACC nabbed Virginia Tech, Miami, and BC to get to 12 and stage a football championship game.
4.) The Big Ten added Nebraska, (who with 11 National Championships, became the third-most successful program in the Big Ten after Michigan and Ohio State) to get to 12 and stage a football championship game.
5.) The Pac-10, to get to 12 and a football championship game, added Colorado, and only added Utah as an afterthought. Its original aim, if you recall, was to get Texas and Oklahoma, bringing Oklahoma State and Texas Tech along for the ride. Texas opted to stay put in the Big 12 with a better TV rights deal for Longhorn Network.

These were big time moves that dynamically changed the conference. Who are your basketball equivalents of Penn State, Nebraska, Arkansas, and Texas? Your game-changers that justify rocking the boat? I really don't see any out there right now, all respect to Saint Louis and what they've managed to do turning that program around.

Assuming you don't want to go outside your geographic concentration, your game changers are Connecticut, Notre Dame, Wake Forest and Duke. None of them are likely to join the Big East, although if they are, I would say they are listed in order of likelihood, contingent on UConn coming to its senses and dropping its mid-major level FBS football, which is cannibalizing its basketball program, and Notre Dame perhaps figuring out that basketball visits from Duke and Carolina every other year aren't worth the strength-of-schedule-suck that is ACC football.

SLU isn't going anywhere. Richmond isn't going anywhere. VCU isn't going anywhere. The A-10 is effectively their ceiling for how high they can go outside of the Big East. UMass may well be heading to the AAC as their 12th team. Fine. Let them.

There's no need to rush. Sit back. Watch for the ACC (who, with football-centric members and basketball-centric members, and an unwieldy 15 teams most resembles the old Big East format). Watch to see if the Big 12 makes a move to get to 12 teams. But don't expand just for the sake of expanding.

This.

[aughnanure]

I guess the endgame thought for me is this:

Is it possible to be happy where one is at when there's something better out there?

And how do you think us C7 schools feel?

[Xudash]

I guess the endgame thought for me is this:

Is it possible to be happy where one is at when there's something better out there?

Yes, so long as your PROGRAM is achieving at a high - national - level, regardless of your program's conference affiliation. SLU did that last year, is doing it this year, and has the program elements in place to do it moving forward.

Perhaps there may be anxiety in play as you wait to see what transpires with the Big East, but at least you'll be happy as your PROGRAM experiences success. As long as SLU keeps tracking, it most certainly will be a top candidate for expansion, assuming expansion occurs, and assuming football schools remain focused on matters having primarily to do with football.

[BillikensWin]

I guess the endgame thought for me is this:

Is it possible to be happy where one is at when there's something better out there?

And how do you think us C7 schools feel?

Unless there's a whole bunch of you guys are starting football (or going to the BCS level), there isn't anything else "out there", right?

[BillikensWin]

I guess the endgame thought for me is this:

Is it possible to be happy where one is at when there's something better out there?

Yes, so long as your PROGRAM is achieving at a high - national - level, regardless of your program's conference affiliation. SLU did that last year, is doing it this year, and has the program elements in place to do it moving forward.

Perhaps there may be anxiety in play as you wait to see what transpires with the Big East, but at least you'll be happy as your PROGRAM experiences success. As long as SLU keeps tracking, it most certainly will be a top candidate for expansion, assuming expansion occurs, and assuming football schools remain focused on matters having primarily to do with football.

Dash, I've talked with you many times, and I see what you're saying. I guess as one of the more vocal SLU fans, it feels like I'm consistently on the defensive.