Tues 1/28 BE Game Thread (1 Game, SJU-CU).

[GumbyDamnit!]

Jays fan put the SJU fan comments into perspective... It is frustration with a twinge of jealousy, pure and simple. Over the years you get to see a recurring theme of the fans from teams like SJU, SHU, and Rutgers (when we were all together). They point to being simply "unlucky" or that the "refs blew that for us." They say things like "if we weren't so unlucky at the end of our games we would be a Top BE team" without recognizing that games are in fact 40 minutes long and the good teams hunker down when they need to, and the bad teams find ways to lose. I guess luck had everything to do with a DM hitting a 20 footer to win the game, or when CU created a 18 pt lead. Ignore them. Part of their frustration is that, short a couple of flashes in the pan seasons, SJU has really struggled to resemble anything close to their glory years of Chris Mullin and Marc Jackson, 30 YEARS AGO. And then they see a team like CU come into the league and do so well--coupled with a year in which their own team had fallen WAY short of expectations--and you begin to understand where the vitriole comes from.

You guys should be proud b/c you have a tremendous team. They are fun to watch and play well as a team, and play in an electric atmosphere. All of those things can not be said of a team in SJU that is a proud, albeit lost program right now.

[Wizard of Westroads]

Jays fan put the SJU fan comments into perspective... It is frustration with a twinge of jealousy, pure and simple. Over the years you get to see a recurring theme of the fans from teams like SJU, SHU, and Rutgers (when we were all together). They point to being simply "unlucky" or that the "refs blew that for us." They say things like "if we weren't so unlucky at the end of our games we would be a Top BE team" without recognizing that games are in fact 40 minutes long and the good teams hunker down when they need to, and the bad teams find ways to lose. I guess luck had everything to do with a DM hitting a 20 footer to win the game, or when CU created a 18 pt lead. Ignore them. Part of their frustration is that, short a couple of flashes in the pan seasons, SJU has really struggled to resemble anything close to their glory years of Chris Mullin and Marc Jackson, 30 YEARS AGO. And then they see a team like CU come into the league and do so well--coupled with a year in which their own team had fallen WAY short of expectations--and you begin to understand where the vitriole comes from.

You guys should be proud b/c you have a tremendous team. They are fun to watch and play well as a team, and play in an electric atmosphere. All of those things can not be said of a team in SJU that is a proud, albeit lost program right now.

Thanks, that makes sense. We'll try to ignore them.

[Bluejay]

Jays fan put the SJU fan comments into perspective... It is frustration with a twinge of jealousy, pure and simple. Over the years you get to see a recurring theme of the fans from teams like SJU, SHU, and Rutgers (when we were all together). They point to being simply "unlucky" or that the "refs blew that for us." They say things like "if we weren't so unlucky at the end of our games we would be a Top BE team" without recognizing that games are in fact 40 minutes long and the good teams hunker down when they need to, and the bad teams find ways to lose. I guess luck had everything to do with a DM hitting a 20 footer to win the game, or when CU created a 18 pt lead. Ignore them. Part of their frustration is that, short a couple of flashes in the pan seasons, SJU has really struggled to resemble anything close to their glory years of Chris Mullin and Marc Jackson, 30 YEARS AGO. And then they see a team like CU come into the league and do so well--coupled with a year in which their own team had fallen WAY short of expectations--and you begin to understand where the vitriole comes from.

You guys should be proud b/c you have a tremendous team. They are fun to watch and play well as a team, and play in an electric atmosphere. All of those things can not be said of a team in SJU that is a proud, albeit lost program right now.

I was just about to type a post asking if St JOhns fans were always so insecure and whiny. Thank you for your classy post and for settling me down. Villanova fans, along with Xavier fans, have quickly become my favorites in this new conference.

SJU took everyone else out of the game and invited Doug to beat them all by himself. He did. Whenever an opponent has tried to play Doug all night without a double team, he's gone off for 35+.

Its sad that the actions of a few SJU fans completely ruined my plan to come here and complement the Johnnies team. Now my feelings are more in line with hoping they lose every remaining game.

[HoosierPal]

I considered myself a neutral observer last night. I did not care who won, just hoped for a cleaner game than Georgetown - Villanova.

1) Nice win Creighton, and clutch shot by McDermott. Showed he is worth POY.
2) Was McDermott fouled on the last shot, or did the second Creighton player involved undercut the defender causing him to fall into McDermott?
3) Where in the heck was the defense from St. Johns on the last shot? Is that what Lavin told them to do in the huddle? Let McDermott shoot??
4) Horrible missed call on McDermott when he scored 2 to put Creighton ahead at then end. He hooked the St. Johns defender big time with his right arm on the drive to the hoop. The refs missed it and the announcers missed it. I ran it back and forth several times during the time out and couldn't believe I was the only one in American who saw that hook. It wasn't even close. McDermott was the only player on the floor who could have gotten away with that hook.
5) The last charge foul on the St. Johns player, come on. Was the Creighton played #22 set? Hard to be set when you are stumbling backwards. Again, a game changer that the officials and the announcers missed. That was not a ticky-tack foul.
6) This game should silence those fans who say Creighton is underrated. They were a bad call away from a loss.
7) For those advocate RPI as the holy grail, this is the very type of game that statistics cannot deal with. All it does in the computer is go down as a Win for Creighton and a Loss for St. Johns. The intangibles that we all saw evaporate. What I saw was a lucky win for Creighton, I saw a great performance by one player, I saw St. Johns as the better team for 2/3 of the game, and I saw questionable officiating influencing the outcome. None of that is captured in RPI.

[section202jay]

4) Horrible missed call on McDermott when he scored 2 to put Creighton ahead at then end. He hooked the St. Johns defender big time with his right arm on the drive to the hoop. The refs missed it and the announcers missed it. I ran it back and forth several times during the time out and couldn't believe I was the only one in American who saw that hook. It wasn't even close. McDermott was the only player on the floor who could have gotten away with that hook.
5) The last charge foul on the St. Johns player, come on. Was the Creighton played #22 set? Hard to be set when you are stumbling backwards. Again, a game changer that the officials and the announcers missed. That was not a ticky-tack foul.
6) This game should silence those fans who say Creighton is underrated. They were a bad call away from a loss.
7) For those advocate RPI as the holy grail, this is the very type of game that statistics cannot deal with. All it does in the computer is go down as a Win for Creighton and a Loss for St. Johns. The intangibles that we all saw evaporate. What I saw was a lucky win for Creighton, I saw a great performance by one player, I saw St. Johns as the better team for 2/3 of the game, and I saw questionable officiating influencing the outcome. None of that is captured in RPI.

St. John's was a better team for 2/3 of the game? I think maybe 1/4 as Creighton led almost the entire game. And a lucky win? We had a player score 39 points and put us on his back. That's talent bud.

Haters gonna hate.

[JohnnyBoy]

I apologize to Creighton fans. It's mostly emotion. I will swallow my pride for a bit and admit Gumby is right as much as I hate to admit it. As a fanbase we have been starving...we are in the middle of the dessert and there's no water in sight. We are skin and bones and dying as a program year after year. It really withers the fans over the years. If you were a Mets, Islanders, Jets, Knicks, and St. John's fan simultaneously, you would have this attitude too. St. John's was supposed to be the team out of that group to actually make some real noise. They haven't. Every ranked game we have played we proved we belong. But we ended up losing on big time shots made under pressure or lacking the ability to close. It's easier to be a DePaul fan where you know you have no chance (no offense) than a St. John's fan where we know we have the players to beat anyone in the nation and finish top 3 if not win the Big East, yet it's just more of the same result: losses. No team has come close to the disappointment this program consistently produces. The talent to results gap is the biggest for our program in the nation. Our team with a good coach is at worst top 3 in the conference right now and maybe even 1st. Instead we won't even make the NIT. That is as aggravating as it gets. In all honesty there were some atrocious calls...forget sour grapes...the Jordan charge was just stupid at a key point in the game. But credit McDermott for hitting an NBA 3 when he had to with seconds remaining. That's called killer instinct and clutch.

So I apologize for the lashing out. Please don't take it personally. We aren't Wichita St. fans I can assure you. And the whole New Yorker's are jerks stuff is not true. We just speak our minds more than people in other parts of the country more freely. We are more blunt rather than calculated. Good game Creighton...hope we can take you down at the Garden but I feel like we already missed our shot last night. This offseason is going to be brutal. No recruits, Lavin will be on the hotseat, and more negativity.

[Jet915]

St. Johns was the better team for 2/3rds of the game? Really? We were leading or tied for the whole game! Btw, kenpom rates teams based on performance and not just wins and losses and they have us #2 so that would argue for underrated.

[Omaha1]

I apologize to Creighton fans. It's mostly emotion. I will swallow my pride for a bit and admit Gumby is right as much as I hate to admit it. As a fanbase we have been starving...we are in the middle of the dessert and there's no water in sight.

So I apologize for the lashing out. Please don't take it personally. We aren't Wichita St. fans I can assure you. And the whole New Yorker's are jerks stuff is not true. We just speak our minds more than people in other parts of the country more freely. We are more blunt rather than calculated. Good game Creighton...hope we can take you down at the Garden but I feel like we already missed our shot last night. This offseason is going to be brutal. No recruits, Lavin will be on the hotseat, and more negativity.

Apology accepted. Good luck to you and St. John's going forward.

[handdownmandown]

Those are pretty broad conclusions to draw from 40 minutes of hoops, neutral or otherwise. I think the correct way of looking at it might be to accept the Nova game as our absolute top end with this probably in the bottom 10% (even with Doug) and use the combined view as a guide.

I can't believe how lazily some of our guys played though. If I didnt know better I would swear Brooks was a double agent, and Chatman and Manigat were both weak. Phew. And as for the return trip, while I am sure St.John's fans are salivating over it, you can be assured we will have fixed a lot of what ailed us yesterday.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I considered myself a neutral observer last night. I did not care who won, just hoped for a cleaner game than Georgetown - Villanova.

1) Nice win Creighton, and clutch shot by McDermott. Showed he is worth POY.
2) Was McDermott fouled on the last shot, or did the second Creighton player involved undercut the defender causing him to fall into McDermott?
3) Where in the heck was the defense from St. Johns on the last shot? Is that what Lavin told them to do in the huddle? Let McDermott shoot??
4) Horrible missed call on McDermott when he scored 2 to put Creighton ahead at then end. He hooked the St. Johns defender big time with his right arm on the drive to the hoop. The refs missed it and the announcers missed it. I ran it back and forth several times during the time out and couldn't believe I was the only one in American who saw that hook. It wasn't even close. McDermott was the only player on the floor who could have gotten away with that hook.
5) The last charge foul on the St. Johns player, come on. Was the Creighton played #22 set? Hard to be set when you are stumbling backwards. Again, a game changer that the officials and the announcers missed. That was not a ticky-tack foul.
6) This game should silence those fans who say Creighton is underrated. They were a bad call away from a loss.
7) For those advocate RPI as the holy grail, this is the very type of game that statistics cannot deal with. All it does in the computer is go down as a Win for Creighton and a Loss for St. Johns. The intangibles that we all saw evaporate. What I saw was a lucky win for Creighton, I saw a great performance by one player, I saw St. Johns as the better team for 2/3 of the game, and I saw questionable officiating influencing the outcome. None of that is captured in RPI.

Don't agree on the above points. Don't expect a hooking call against DM in the last 2 minutes of a tight game. The more questionable one was the charge on Jordan. But calls like that happen. They suck, but good teams overcome them. Nova got hosed vs. Marq and still won. SHU got hosed at Prov. but still won. You can't look at one play and say that the entire game came down to that. If SJU was a great team, they would have made stops and built a lead earlier in the game. I think everyone saw what SJU COULD beor was SUPPOSED to be in the 2nd half stretch in which they closed an 18 pt hole. They should be aggressive on both ends of the floor. Their D picked up tremendously. D is about effort. Why haven't they shown that same effort every game? That is what it takes to be great, and SJU is lacking something.