Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[notkirkcameron]

Define consistent Ncaa success. are we talking recent or 1980's. LOL when did UMass make the mention i missed that. You might be surprised that UMass is on the AAC or bust train not the BE or bust train lol.

Depends on if their football program keeps hemorrhaging money to nonexistant support. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/ ... story.html

If they keep losing money, games, and fans, do they move back to FCS? Worth pointing out that every member of the Big East had football at one point and either moved the program to FCS or shut it down. Why not UMass/UConn or Duke/Wake Forest?

Georgetown (FCS)
Villanova (FCS)
Butler (FCS)
DePaul (Undefeated since 1938)
Providence (Undefeated since 1941)
Creighton (Undefeated since 1942)
Marquette (Undefeated since 1960)
Xavier (Undefeated since 1973)
Seton Hall (Undefeated since 1981)
St. John's (Undefeated since 2002)

[BillEsq]

I agree that UMass adding FBS was a mistake (same for uconn)
However they have added FBS so unless they bite the million dollar bullet and admit it was a mistake and move back to FCS they have to commit to making it work (i agree it will never work)
However odds of a school president and AD admitting a mistake and moving back to FCS .01% Slightly higher than the odds of UMass getting in the BE

[notkirkcameron]

UMass, like VCU, like Richmond, like Dayton, like Davidson, like Wichita, like a host of other schools, would be a lousy add for the conference. This entire thread is devoted to conjecture and hypotheticals, and that isn't a bad thing.

But it's also not a bad thing for the Big East to stand pat on 10. In fact, it may be the best thing.

[lolhoya]

A question:

Why should anyone care about the academic profile of the prospective schools?

Seriously, I don't get it. Did I miss the part where we are holding chess and debate tournaments? We are building an athletic conference, focused on men's basketball.

How does the academic reputation of the schools matter at all, other than some kind of snooty desire to stay away from the dumbs? I have a hard time believing that there's THAT much shared research going on between conference schools that would not have already been going on if they didn't happen to be in the same conference.

[marquette]

A question:

Why should anyone care about the academic profile of the prospective schools?

Seriously, I don't get it. Did I miss the part where we are holding chess and debate tournaments? We are building an athletic conference, focused on men's basketball.

How does the academic reputation of the schools matter at all, other than some kind of snooty desire to stay away from the dumbs? I have a hard time believing that there's THAT much shared research going on between conference schools that would not have already been going on if they didn't happen to be in the same conference.

From the perspective of a the presidents academic profiles could be huge. Academic profiles are important for university prestige (who you associate with says a lot about you). You also have to take into consideration that large public schools with suspect academics have been jerking the C7 around for years (Pitt, WVU, Louisville, etc). Lots of conferences have priority transfers between member institutions, share faculty, and pursue research projects/funding together. For example, in the case of law schools we exchange faculty members all the time. Adding a solid program at UR (#53) and a decent one at SLU (#109) gives us a decent pool of high level faculty (Georgetown has far and away the best program, but UR has a highly ranked all around school and most of us have highly rated specialty programs such as Marquette's sports law [#1 in the country] and legal writing [#6] programs). That's just one example, you can apply it to any department. Really, it depends on what kind of conference we want to be. It will come down to the presidents decisions.

From the athletic directors standpoint you are looking at different issues. They may want the best all around athletic programs (looking at SLU and Dayton for non-revs), or the best basketball programs based on recent success (SLU, VCU), or past success and current program enthusiasm (UD).

I couldn't really begin to speculate on who the people at Fox want. I would assume SLU because of the market, but after that there isn't really much difference in market size. I guess maybe Richmond brings a slightly bigger market and Dayton brings a slightly bigger market share.

Overall I guess it depends on who has the most say

[NJRedman]

1. You need to quit being a defensive child.

2. You need to show some respect to your fellow posters.

3. You need to actually understand what you are reading before going off like a douchebag.

Maybe you didn't realize but up until a few months ago all three of those schools i mentioned were considered "Mid-Majors". So calling any potential members mid-majors like the poster I was actually responding to did, then he would be insulting our newest members. Which is what I was taking offense of. I was pointing out his hypocrisy.

Oh and if I did want to go down that road, i'd say you got all those wins while playing in a mid-major conference, and that you would have been nothing more than fodder in the old school Big East. But you're right, I don't want to go down that road. I'll just be happy with my schools two final fours and place in the top ten of all time wins. Oh and the better and more famous basketball alumni.[/quote]

1. I'm not being a defensive child. Never suggest to someone that they should show respect to fellow posters by referring to that individual as a "child." That was a very stupid thing to do; you lost your credibility in that one sentence.

2. My general approach to message boards is to be respectful, but when I read something that's idiotic that has to do with Xavier, I'll respond with an appropriate rebuttal.

3. I understood what you wrote: you directly implied that Xavier was a mid-major coming into this league.

So, maybe you didn't realize it, but Xavier, over the course of at least the last five years or so, has been regarded as a major program playing in a mid-major conference. We beat teams from the old school Big East regularly in both regular and post-season play. Our OOC schedules have been among the toughest in the nation. Our NCAA track record clearly suggests that we have no problem winning at a high level. And, frankly, the A10 wasn't exactly melba toast.

You really do need to realize something, and it's going to hurt (you, probably not the more balanced St. John's fans who hang around here): Xavier's program is better than St. John's program right now as measured by any key metric: facilities, fan base, resume, etc. I want St. John's to be very good for the sake of this conference. However, what I really find annoying and stupid is when some fan from a long underachieving program sits up on his hind legs and acts like his program has some kind of perceived high status.[/quote]

Oh so when I call you a child I lose credibility, but when you actually act like a child you don't? Gotcha.

Yes, Xavier was a Mid-Major, sorry but it's true. Playing in the A-10 and the money you were making made you in fact a mid-major. Why are you so defensive about it? You played in the A-10 against Fordham and Rhode Island. Thats a mid-major. No matter how tough you scheduled OOC.

You still don't even get what I said, you're mad over me defending both the new schools and those who might be added down the road, but your such a defensive child you still don't get that. Go ahead and bash St. John's and me, thats fine i'm a big man, I can take it. Don't sit there and act like you had a normal reaction to what I wrote. It wasn't idiotic, your response was what was idiotic.

None of your posts will hurt me. Though mine clearly hurt you, which means you are a CHILD. I have other words to call someone who reacts like you did, but i'll keep them to myself for now.

[CTYankee10]

I think the league will stand pat at least through a recruiting cycle, as there needs to be an evaluation period as to how increased dollars and exposure benefit new adds. One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that Dayton won't be in this league in a million years. Neither will St Joe's/GW/Fordham/URI for the same reason - too close to other member schools.

[TBC Alum]

I like 10 and I think 10 is a great place to be for the foreseeable future.

To me, the only push for expansion comes from those wanting in. I have yet to see any good reason to expand beyond 10 at this time.

I say sit back, survey the landscape and be prepared to take advantage of an opportunity that truly benefits the league and its members.

Going to 12 because 12 is there just doesn't make any sense. But that's what some outside the league would like us to do.

[lolhoya]

Overall I guess it depends on who has the most say

Agreed, and thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[Xudash]

1. You need to quit being a defensive child.

2. You need to show some respect to your fellow posters.

3. You need to actually understand what you are reading before going off like a douchebag.

Maybe you didn't realize but up until a few months ago all three of those schools i mentioned were considered "Mid-Majors". So calling any potential members mid-majors like the poster I was actually responding to did, then he would be insulting our newest members. Which is what I was taking offense of. I was pointing out his hypocrisy.

Oh and if I did want to go down that road, i'd say you got all those wins while playing in a mid-major conference, and that you would have been nothing more than fodder in the old school Big East. But you're right, I don't want to go down that road. I'll just be happy with my schools two final fours and place in the top ten of all time wins. Oh and the better and more famous basketball alumni.

---

Oh so when I call you a child I lose credibility, but when you actually act like a child you don't? Gotcha.

Yes, Xavier was a Mid-Major, sorry but it's true. Playing in the A-10 and the money you were making made you in fact a mid-major. Why are you so defensive about it? You played in the A-10 against Fordham and Rhode Island. Thats a mid-major. No matter how tough you scheduled OOC.

You still don't even get what I said, you're mad over me defending both the new schools and those who might be added down the road, but your such a defensive child you still don't get that. Go ahead and bash St. John's and me, thats fine i'm a big man, I can take it. Don't sit there and act like you had a normal reaction to what I wrote. It wasn't idiotic, your response was what was idiotic.

None of your posts will hurt me. Though mine clearly hurt you, which means you are a CHILD. I have other words to call someone who reacts like you did, but i'll keep them to myself for now.[/quote]

When you call someone a child on a message board, it's a reflection on you. When you accuse someone of going off like a douchebag, after you receive an accurate rebuttal to your drivel, it's a reflection on you. You're the one who is overreacting here. You seem to be very defensive. If you want to believe that Xavier is a mid-major, that's your opinion. There are many people who agree with you, primarily on the basis of X not being a member of one of the top 5 football-centric conferences. There are many others that agree with me; they actually consider Xavier's basketball resume when considering Xavier's standing in basketball.

Here appears to be the crux of your argument: "So calling any potential members mid-majors like the poster I was actually responding to did, then he would be insulting our newest members. Which is what I was taking offense of. I was pointing out his hypocrisy." Firstly, I congratulate your deft ability to mangle the English language. Secondly, if you're so adamant about the mid-major thing, how is referring to prospective new members as mid-majors insulting to the new members, who, according to you, are mid-majors themselves? What or who do you believe you're defending?

The irony in all this, which you clearly don't get, is that I'm perfectly comfortable with where Xavier came from, where it is now, and where it's headed. I was excited for X to join this league, so that it would be with prestigious, winning programs like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette. I truly hope St. John's can turn itself around from its poor results in recent years, because the Big East will benefit from having a strong presence in New York. I love being in with Providence, given how they're progressing, and look forward to seeing how Seton Hall progresses when its new recruiting class comes in. Creighton has proven itself admirably, and I believe, given its resources and fan base and the quality of the school itself that it will do well in the Big East moving forward. Butler should right its ship. And DePaul will be a force if and when it solves its issues. This can be a very good 10 team league.

On that note, I hope we stay at 10.

BTW, your posts don't hurt me. And you don't get to dictate how people respond here. If you can come at this in a reasonable fashion with reasoned arguments, and without stupidly declaring posters children and douchebags simply because you get your feelings hurt, then I have no problem exchanging posts with you. If you can't do that, then you certainly don't deserve any respect.