big picture view of Big East teams

[Friarfan2]

Not just this year, but in the bigger picture view:

Great programs with their act together (more than half the conference)(placed alphabetically):
1. Butler - they were good before stevens, they were great with stevens, they have the institutional support, fan base, and ability stay at a high level tournament team. Arena looks amazing on tv. Hopefully they can consistently place above notre dame and purdue and challenege indiana for top spot in the hoosier state.
2. Creighton - biggest question mark of this group, but I am bullish on them over the next half decade. They are an experienced senior laden team, and I think they need a deep tourney run to establish their national brand. I don't know how committed their coach is once his son leaves. Fantastic fan base, great situation. How will they rebuild?
3. Georgetown - enough said
4. Marquette - one down year doesn't diminish their past decade
5. Villanova - enough said
6. Xavier - should have been added to the big east years ago. Best program In cincy. Quality and consistency, wit the fan base and institutional support to go along.

Question mark:
7. St john's - what the heck is going on here? Just can't seem to establish a winning tradition. Stuck out norm roberts too long. Lavin is bringing in talent, but can't develop an upper classmen rotation to assist the transition from talented under classmen. That year he hung out in the owner's box set them back I think. Plus side: madison square garden and new york city.

The dregs:
8. DePaul - I like to think they can turn it around, but how much losing can one program endure? Plus side: new arena, chicago market, school is willing to pay big money for a coach.
9. Providence - just can't seem to get it together. Plus side: cooley seems like a good coach, still have good fan support. Not sure if the school is putting enough effort in though.
10. Seton Hall - big recruiting class next year, but not much in terms of established upper classmen support to help them. Could be one of those "hyped up" teams that never seems to gel. Their coach is pretty bad too. Plus side: I guess the recruiting class, but that's about it. Facilities are in tough shape, institutional support is more like Atlantic 10 levels than big east.

I am trying to figure out providence's outlook for the future, and that's what motivated this list. Doesn't look good. There are 6 teams that look rock solid, and a 7th with potential. Providence just needs to keep doing their best, but this is going to be a tough league to move up the ranks. I think the key for providence will first be strong out of conference efforts, and then conference wins will come.

[stever20]

Not just this year, but in the bigger picture view:

Great programs with their act together (more than half the conference)(placed alphabetically):
1. Butler - they were good before stevens, they were great with stevens, they have the institutional support, fan base, and ability stay at a high level tournament team. Arena looks amazing on tv. Hopefully they can consistently place above notre dame and purdue and challenege indiana for top spot in the hoosier state.
2. Creighton - biggest question mark of this group, but I am bullish on them over the next half decade. They are an experienced senior laden team, and I think they need a deep tourney run to establish their national brand. I don't know how committed their coach is once his son leaves. Fantastic fan base, great situation. How will they rebuild?
3. Georgetown - enough said
4. Marquette - one down year doesn't diminish their past decade
5. Villanova - enough said
6. Xavier - should have been added to the big east years ago. Best program In cincy. Quality and consistency, wit the fan base and institutional support to go along.

Question mark:
7. St john's - what the heck is going on here? Just can't seem to establish a winning tradition. Stuck out norm roberts too long. Lavin is bringing in talent, but can't develop an upper classmen rotation to assist the transition from talented under classmen. That year he hung out in the owner's box set them back I think. Plus side: madison square garden and new york city.

The dregs:
8. DePaul - I like to think they can turn it around, but how much losing can one program endure? Plus side: new arena, chicago market, school is willing to pay big money for a coach.
9. Providence - just can't seem to get it together. Plus side: cooley seems like a good coach, still have good fan support. Not sure if the school is putting enough effort in though.
10. Seton Hall - big recruiting class next year, but not much in terms of established upper classmen support to help them. Could be one of those "hyped up" teams that never seems to gel. Their coach is pretty bad too. Plus side: I guess the recruiting class, but that's about it. Facilities are in tough shape, institutional support is more like Atlantic 10 levels than big east.

I am trying to figure out providence's outlook for the future, and that's what motivated this list. Doesn't look good. There are 6 teams that look rock solid, and a 7th with potential. Providence just needs to keep doing their best, but this is going to be a tough league to move up the ranks. I think the key for providence will first be strong out of conference efforts, and then conference wins will come.

I'd put Creighton in the Question mark category based on everything you said. Compared to the other 5 on your top line- they have way more questionmarks. Everyone else I think you are spot on.

[Friarfan2]

Creighton was definitely borderline.

18k fans per game, the premiere program in their state, hopefully this year is a deep tourney run (at least elite 8) to establish their brand, and I remain bullish.

I do agree that they are the biggest question mark moving forward.

Will their coach be there in 2020?

[stever20]

Creighton was definitely borderline.

18k fans per game, the premiere program in their state, hopefully this year is a deep tourney run (at least elite 8) to establish their brand, and I remain bullish.

I do agree that they are the biggest question mark moving forward.

Will their coach be there in 2020?

Considering where they are projected RPI and in all the brackets(around a 6-7 seed)- that's going to be a hard mark to get. You look at them- they just aren't anywhere near as much of a lock as the other 5 teams you listed. And yes, I view the other 5 as locks... Sure one year you may have a down year- but consistently- those 5 seem like good shots to remain quality programs long term...

[bornajay]

Creighton was definitely borderline.

18k fans per game, the premiere program in their state, hopefully this year is a deep tourney run (at least elite 8) to establish their brand, and I remain bullish.

I do agree that they are the biggest question mark moving forward.

Will their coach be there in 2020?

Can't that question be asked about every coach? Creighton, next year will have some question marks but they are an established program with as much consistency over the last 20 years as anyone in the league.

[Friarfan2]

Did you just say creighton has as much consistency as anyone in the league the past 20 yrs? Whaaaaat???

Georgetown over the past 20 yrs:
Allen iverson years
Final four
12 tourney appearances
16 tourney wins
5 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and a final four

Villanova:
Kerry kittles era
Randy foye era
Final four
12 tourney appearances
14 tourney wins
4 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and final four

Marquette:
Dwayne wade era
Final four
13 tourney appearances
16 toourney wins
5 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and final four

Xavier:
15 tournament appearances
5 trips to the second weekend with 2 elite 8s

Butler:
2 national championship games

Creighton:
McDermont era (still to be seen)
9 tourney appearances
3 tournament wins

Creighton is actually on par with seton hall and providence

Providence:
4 ncaa tourneys, but 3 wins with an elite 8

Seton hall:
4 ncaa tourneys, 3 wins with a sweet 16


I'm not hating on creighton, but come on dude!!

[Friarfan2]

Regarding coaching stability:
I think john thompson and jay wright have shown that they are career men at their school.
Brandom miller will be at butler for a while.
I don't care who xavier's coach is, whoever they hire is golden.
Buzz williams may leave, but they have shown they are a place where coaches thrive.

I don't know about the insitutional situation behind mcdermott as coach and his long term commitment to the program and their need for him to stick it out or be able to bounce back from a change.

[Hall2012]

Seton Hall's facilities are in tough shape? Really? Try doing a little research before you make stuff up. To begin with, they play their home games in the Prudential Center, a state of the art professional arena. As for the on-campus facilities- they just renovated everything within the past year. The things that are finished are gorgeous. The things that are still being finished up will be soon. As far as institutional support, you'd have been on the money a few years ago but the new president seems to recognize the importance of athletics (especially basketball) to the university and has been giving the athletics programs more support (hence the renovations). Program success doesn't change overnight, but we should start to see his efforts start to pay off in the next couple of years.

[Piratefan]

Seton Hall may have issues, but facilities are not among them. The school has a brand new locker room which is big-time and one of the best in the conference (additionally, SHU uses the old Nets locker room complex at the Prudential center which is off the charts). The school has built a brand new state-of-the art-medical training facility and a brand new academic center in the past six months. This year the school will build a new state-of-the-art weight room complex. The Pirates charter all flights where it makes sense and assistant coach salaries are very competitive. Resources are not an issue as the school is finally committed to compete at the highest levels. To be candid, this commitment is new with the new University leadership in the past 3 years. Hopefully next year's recruiting class is the beginning of a renaissance. Readers who may have interest can view many of these new facilities at shupirates.com.

[bornajay]

Did you just say creighton has as much consistency as anyone in the league the past 20 yrs? Whaaaaat???

Georgetown over the past 20 yrs:
Allen iverson years
Final four
12 tourney appearances
16 tourney wins
5 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and a final four

Villanova:
Kerry kittles era
Randy foye era
Final four
12 tourney appearances
14 tourney wins
4 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and final four

Marquette:
Dwayne wade era
Final four
13 tourney appearances
16 toourney wins
5 trips to the second weekend with an elite 8 and final four

Xavier:
15 tournament appearances
5 trips to the second weekend with 2 elite 8s

Butler:
2 national championship games

Creighton:
McDermont era (still to be seen)
9 tourney appearances
3 tournament wins

Creighton is actually on par with seton hall and providence

Providence:
4 ncaa tourneys, but 3 wins with an elite 8

Seton hall:
4 ncaa tourneys, 3 wins with a sweet 16


I'm not hating on creighton, but come on dude!!

Dude, I am talking years of consistency, not tournament success. 17 straight post season appearances, only one of the last 17 seasons resulted in less than 20 wins and no losing seasons. No other Big East team has that consistency. I guess it depends on how you define it.