Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[cr8onbb]

Huh? Creighton beat Wichita 2 out 3 last year...

beyond the previous comments, trying to fly to Wichita is not much fun. I once flew back from DC to Omaha and the guy next to me was flying to Omaha and then driving to Wichita because it was cheaper and just as efficient to rent a car from Omaha and drive the rest than it would have been to fly to Wichita. I know that doesn't mean much for men's basketball but all other sports would have to deal with the misery of getting there. But it wouldn't get to that stage anyway. Wichita is not a fit for the Big East, and is not a sustained basketball program. They do have A solid baseball program with tradition, but that doesn't mean squat in this conversation. One other factor against Wichita, the Big East seems to be currently filled with teams that have intelligent, rational fans that show respect toward other people. You would lose that with Wichita.

[Omaha1]

Huh? Creighton beat Wichita 2 out 3 last year...

beyond the previous comments, trying to fly to Wichita is not much fun. I once flew back from DC to Omaha and the guy next to me was flying to Omaha and then driving to Wichita because it was cheaper and just as efficient to rent a car from Omaha and drive the rest than it would have been to fly to Wichita. I know that doesn't mean much for men's basketball but all other sports would have to deal with the misery of getting there. But it wouldn't get to that stage anyway. Wichita is not a fit for the Big East, and is not a sustained basketball program. They do have A solid baseball program with tradition, but that doesn't mean squat in this conversation. One other factor against Wichita, the Big East seems to be currently filled with teams that have intelligent, rational fans that show respect toward other people. You would lose that with Wichita.

Creighton beat Wichita twice the last week of the season before their NCAA tournament run and Creighton won like 20 straight times in Omaha. Also, Wichita State is the ONLY Valley school to have NEVER won Arch Madness.

[billyjack]

Gonzaga was beating Wichita by 7 or so with around 4 minutes left. Without a series of improbable or borderline insane events, the Shockers would have lost in the Round of 32.

For example:
Up by 5 or 7 with around 4 to go:
- Olynyk was going in for a easy dunk, so a Shocker hacked him to send him to the line, only the refs swallowed their whistles.
- Wichita went unconscious by hitting a bunch of nearly impossible, rainmaker threes.
- John Stockton's son traveled while inbounding the ball, a play I've never seen before.

No way would Wichita be discussed right now if these things didn't happen over these final 4 minutes of gameplay. That's kinda the definition of "flash in the pan". Butler, Xavier and Creighton have had success over 10+, 15+ or more years.

[billyjack]

Also, Creighton is in our conference now, and they had been with Wichita for decades, so I would defer to them and their opinions when looking at the Shockers. I've gotten the sense from Jays fans that Shocker fans are obnoxious and delusional, and that Creighton is happy to be away from them.

So i would put a lot of stock in their opinion, the same way I'd listen to Villanova fans about Temple, and Xavier fans regarding Dayton. Those familiar with Saint Louis seem to like the Billikens, so that's cool. Also, in the past, DePaul and Marquette seem to have always respected each other.

I have no real opinion of Wichita, but a cousin of mine went to school there in the 90s and I spent some time there with him, and the people were really nice, except for some sicko psychopath serial killer that had been terrorizing the city for years..

[Xudash]

Also, Creighton is in our conference now, and they had been with Wichita for decades, so I would defer to them and their opinions when looking at the Shockers. I've gotten the sense from Jays fans that Shocker fans are obnoxious and delusional, and that Creighton is happy to be away from them.

So i would put a lot of stock in their opinion, the same way I'd listen to Villanova fans about Temple, and Xavier fans regarding Dayton. Those familiar with Saint Louis seem to like the Billikens, so that's cool. Also, in the past, DePaul and Marquette seem to have always respected each other.

I have no real opinion of Wichita, but a cousin of mine went to school there in the 90s and I spent some time there with him, and the people were really nice, except for some sicko psychopath serial killer that had been terrorizing the city for years..

Very good observation.

For the record, Dayton fans are insufferable. No psychopath's to my knowledge, but they don't need any; they're fully stocked with nut jobs.

[Jays26]

That and it seems Creighton has trouble beating them. Better keep them out so Creighton doesn't lose another league game

Sorry Scatdog....time to go back to MVC Fans and Shockertown or whatever it's called. You have been outed.

Jays were 1 Wragge bomb away from sweeping Wichiturd last year in what will be the most magical/lucky year they will ever have. And as mentioned, they have NEVER won a MVC tourney title.

[Jays26]

Also, Creighton is in our conference now, and they had been with Wichita for decades, so I would defer to them and their opinions when looking at the Shockers. I've gotten the sense from Jays fans that Shocker fans are obnoxious and delusional, and that Creighton is happy to be away from them. So i would put a lot of stock in their opinion, the same way I'd listen to Villanova fans about Temple, and Xavier fans regarding Dayton. Those familiar with Saint Louis seem to like the Billikens, so that's cool. Also, in the past, DePaul and Marquette seem to have always respected each other.

I have no real opinion of Wichita, but a cousin of mine went to school there in the 90s and I spent some time there with him, and the people were really nice, except for some sicko psychopath serial killer that had been terrorizing the city for years..

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Sactowndog]

That and it seems Creighton has trouble beating them. Better keep them out so Creighton doesn't lose another league game

Sorry Scatdog....time to go back to MVC Fans and Shockertown or whatever it's called. You have been outed.

Jays were 1 Wragge bomb away from sweeping Wichiturd last year in what will be the most magical/lucky year they will ever have. And as mentioned, they have NEVER won a MVC tourney title.

Sorry not a Wichita State fan but the vociferous reaction by Creighton fans are exactly why I want them in the league. A true rival is one you hate so much that you want nothing but the worse for them even if it is good for you. On that note Wichita State certainly qualifies.

I also think academic snobbery is pointless in athletic conferences. The only question is do they make your conference better and do they add rivalries. Wichita State does both. So does VCU with Georgetown.

I would like to see the big east succeed. But to do so, I think they have to take the best basketball possible regardless of academics. To me that means Wichita State and VCU.

[Edrick]

I'd like to put my vote in for the Chicago Bulls to join the league.

If people are going to talk about public schools with absolutely no chance of joining this private league, how about NBA teams?

Speaking of which, the Nets might make some sense if it weren't for they'd hurt the conference RPI.

[cr8onbb]

Ok, it's Christmas Eve, I am stuck in a mostly empty office with not much to do, so here goes. The idea that Wichita is Creighton's longtime rival and is worthy of a Big East invite has no merit and would not even be remotely considered by those making these decisions. The fact is that Creighton had been the only consistent team in the MVC. WSU is not a long time rival. When I started going to school, Indiana State was our biggest rival. By the time I finished, Southern Illinois was our biggest foe (Korver era). Since then, we have had it shift from Illinois State, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, and even Drake for 1 year. Yes, the rivalry with WSU was very intense the last few years, but it's not like that has always been the case. Here is how WSU has finished in the 10 team mid major MVC over the last 25 years (2, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 10, 7, 3, 8, 9, 9, 5, 3, 2, 2, 1, 6, 9, 5, 2, 2, 1, 2). In 25 years they have 2 conference titles, no conference tournament championships, and only 3 NCAAT bids. Their average and median conference finish was 5th place out of 10 (i.e. middle of the pack MVC). In comparison, during that same period Creighton has won the regular season title 6 times, tournament title 10 times, with 11 NCAAT appearances. Creighton's average finish was 3.6 with a median of 3. The last time Creighton finished below 4th in the conference was 1997, for WSU you only have to go back to 2009, when they were 6th.

That was longer than I planned but my point is that Wichita might be good now, but they have not evidenced that they are a consistent program, even in the MVC. Add that to bad fit, poor education, difficult location, they really merit no consideration and I find it highly unlikely that the president's of the Big East schools would bother to even consider them nearly as long as posters on this boards.

Hope this puts this to bed so we can get back to being excited about this year and not some teams that hypothetically may or may not get invited in the future. Me personally, I like the 10 we have just fine.