Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[stever20]

Here's the deal on round-robin play: it may or may not develop rivalries, but it certainly develops familiarity. With this new conference line-up, it is important for long term stability that the C7 fanbases get familiar with the "New 3" and likewise, the New 3 fanbases have to get familiar with the C7. The university presidents know that it is important for the fanbases to have the opportunity to see every school on their home floor for a couple of years. Without that, it is hard to assimilate the programs and get everybody moving the same direction. We're in a relatively fragile situation right now and need to stabilize the current ten before adding others and risking further destabilization. That is reason A1 why expansion, if it happens at all, will not happen for a few years.

Reason A2 for holding off is entirely perception. We have seen many call the AAC "the new and improved Conference USA." The BIG EAST does not want to be referred to as the "New and Improved A10". Since in all likelihood any additions would come from the A10, that is a real possibility if the conference expands too soon. University presidents know this and FOX knows this. Unless something dramatic like a UConn dropping football happens, expansion by promoting another mid major only weakens national perception.

Only thing that could change that would be if say a VCU makes the final 4 again. If that happens, expanding to include them would not weaken national perception, it would improve national perception.....

[Bluejay]

Here's the deal on round-robin play: it may or may not develop rivalries, but it certainly develops familiarity. With this new conference line-up, it is important for long term stability that the C7 fanbases get familiar with the "New 3" and likewise, the New 3 fanbases have to get familiar with the C7. The university presidents know that it is important for the fanbases to have the opportunity to see every school on their home floor for a couple of years. Without that, it is hard to assimilate the programs and get everybody moving the same direction. We're in a relatively fragile situation right now and need to stabilize the current ten before adding others and risking further destabilization. That is reason A1 why expansion, if it happens at all, will not happen for a few years.

Reason A2 for holding off is entirely perception. We have seen many call the AAC "the new and improved Conference USA." The BIG EAST does not want to be referred to as the "New and Improved A10". Since in all likelihood any additions would come from the A10, that is a real possibility if the conference expands too soon. University presidents know this and FOX knows this. Unless something dramatic like a UConn dropping football happens, expansion by promoting another mid major only weakens national perception.

Only thing that could change that would be if say a VCU makes the final 4 again. If that happens, expanding to include them would not weaken national perception, it would improve national perception.....

Perhaps, but you are really putting the cart before the horse here. How about we let VCU actually make that Final 4 again before we spend a lot of time worrying or arguing about what would happen if they do? The way the are playing so far this year, combined with the impact of the new rules on the entire Havoc system, seem to severely limit the likelihood of it happening...

[FormulaX]

Rivalries can happen very quickly. As far as nationally recognized, rivalries? That just takes a while. I think Buler-Marquette is on it's way. (after last year, Maui and Tourney) X has been traditionally great at getting under other schools skin.
I really really hope the BE stays at 10, for at least a few years. (see what happens) Being exclusive is cool to recruits. Who will then bring successful teams. Having a bunch of top 25 ranked teams, will bring viewers to FOX.

On the other hand, some rivalries just never get traction. Nebraska has been in the big Ten for two years now, and no one is chomping at the bit, circled the date, when the Huskers come to town. Penn State has been in the Big Ten for what, a decade plus, and the rivalries just aren't there. And I just shrug when you mention Rutgers and Maryland coming in next year. You cannot force it, simply by putting schools under the same banner.

Actually Penn State has now been in the Big Ten foe TWO decades, which kind of proves your point.

Are you talking about football? Because, there can't be a rivalry if one of the teams is continually mediocre, at best. Like Nebska and PennSt bball. Depaul and Marq. will be a big rivalry. IF Depaul gets relevant.

[HoosierPal]

On the other hand, some rivalries just never get traction. Nebraska has been in the big Ten for two years now, and no one is chomping at the bit, circled the date, when the Huskers come to town. Penn State has been in the Big Ten for what, a decade plus, and the rivalries just aren't there. And I just shrug when you mention Rutgers and Maryland coming in next year. You cannot force it, simply by putting schools under the same banner.

Actually Penn State has now been in the Big Ten foe TWO decades, which kind of proves your point.

Are you talking about football? Because, there can't be a rivalry if one of the teams is continually mediocre, at best. Like Nebska and PennSt bball. Depaul and Marq. will be a big rivalry. IF Depaul gets relevant.

I am talking about Basketball in Indiana. [If you follow college football, you know that IU 'really' doesn't play football. It is hard to get fired up for ANY IU football game.] Strictly hoops - There is no emotion for the opposition when the Nebraska or Penn State come to Bloomington. It's just another league game. Purdue has been down for a few years in hoops, but believe me, the rivalry hasn't diminished. And the Hoosiers were down for the better half of a decade before Crean jump started the program. It's inbred, the 'hatred' amongst the Boilermaker and Hoosier fans. It doesn't matter who is up or how is down. I just don't see this happening with Butler, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, etc. They will be important league games, but not a bitter (or even an enjoyable) rivalry. Marquette, X, maybe eventually Creighton. But until DePaul fans attempt to take over Hinkle, a win over DePaul will be just a nice checkmark in the W column, nothing more. Rivalries have to be a two way street. If we said IU is our biggest rival, IU fans would laugh.

[billyjack]

For what it's worth on Butler-Providence, my 8 and 10 year olds watched the last 10 minutes of the Vandy-Butler and Wazzou-Butler games, and they couldn't believe Dunham hitting those NBA 3's to beat WSU and the play of Marshall and Woods rebounding and driving to the hoop. They're really looking forward to Butler at the Dunk next month (me too). They even recognize the backup PG for Butler (Aldridge or something?). I've basically locked the TV onto FS1 (they're not allowed to put it on any ESPN channel), so we're familiar with many players on all the BE teams.

Also, with Brad Stevens in Boston, we get many more Butler references here in New England.

[stever20]

For what it's worth on Butler-Providence, my 8 and 10 year olds watched the last 10 minutes of the Vandy-Butler and Wazzou-Butler games, and they couldn't believe Dunham hitting those NBA 3's to beat WSU and the play of Marshall and Woods rebounding and driving to the hoop. They're really looking forward to Butler at the Dunk next month (me too). They even recognize the backup PG for Butler (Aldridge or something?). I've basically locked the TV onto FS1 (they're not allowed to put it on any ESPN channel), so we're familiar with many players on all the BE teams.

Also, with Brad Stevens in Boston, we get many more Butler references here in New England.

gee, what are they gonna do tomorrow with 2 biggest games on ESPN channels?

[billyjack]

For what it's worth on Butler-Providence, my 8 and 10 year olds watched the last 10 minutes of the Vandy-Butler and Wazzou-Butler games, and they couldn't believe Dunham hitting those NBA 3's to beat WSU and the play of Marshall and Woods rebounding and driving to the hoop. They're really looking forward to Butler at the Dunk next month (me too). They even recognize the backup PG for Butler (Aldridge or something?). I've basically locked the TV onto FS1 (they're not allowed to put it on any ESPN channel), so we're familiar with many players on all the BE teams.

Also, with Brad Stevens in Boston, we get many more Butler references here in New England.

gee, what are they gonna do tomorrow with 2 biggest games on ESPN channels?

Ha! We're going to the Maine-PC game at 2pm, but any BE game on ESPN will have to be watched in a mirror and with garlic hanging above the TV.

[notkirkcameron]

Are you talking about football? Because, there can't be a rivalry if one of the teams is continually mediocre, at best. Like Nebska and PennSt bball. Depaul and Marq. will be a big rivalry. IF Depaul gets relevant.

Having been to several DePaul-Marquette games in both Milwaukee and Chicago, I will say this. It is a one sided rivalry. I've seen DePaul fans rush the floor twice after beating Marquette. Marquette was unranked in both those games. It is the Blue Demon Super Bowl. For Marquette, a win brings no joy; at best, relief. However, newer MU alums (I'm a Tom Crean-era alum), could not give less of a shit about DePaul. It's basically an extra home game for Marquette, and a popular reunion for Chicago-based MU alumni and the crowd in Rosemont is anywhere between a third and a half Marquette fans when they square off. I suspect DePaul is aware of this fact, as this year's game in Rosemont will be the first time the game is held on a weekend in 10 years. I'm expecting a loud, and gold crowd.

The old-timers who were around in the 70s with Al and Ray still appreciate the rivalry, and if I recall correctly, Marquette has played DePaul more times than any other school. However, recently, it's a rivalry in the same sense that a nail vs. a hammer is a rivalry. Marquette has won 33 of the last 40 meetings dating back to 1992.

Steve Taylor, Jr. a graduate of Simeon H.S. here in Chicago was asked a few years ago why he committed to Marquette instead of playing for DePaul. His answer was simply, "They're winning. DePaul doesn't win. I think if they start winning maybe Chicago kids will like them."

[ivet]

Are you talking about football? Because, there can't be a rivalry if one of the teams is continually mediocre, at best. Like Nebska and PennSt bball. Depaul and Marq. will be a big rivalry. IF Depaul gets relevant.

Having been to several DePaul-Marquette games in both Milwaukee and Chicago, I will say this. It is a one sided rivalry. I've seen DePaul fans rush the floor twice after beating Marquette. Marquette was unranked in both those games. It is the Blue Demon Super Bowl. For Marquette, a win brings no joy; at best, relief. However, newer MU alums (I'm a Tom Crean-era alum), could not give less of a shit about DePaul. It's basically an extra home game for Marquette, and a popular reunion for Chicago-based MU alumni and the crowd in Rosemont is anywhere between a third and a half Marquette fans when they square off. I suspect DePaul is aware of this fact, as this year's game in Rosemont will be the first time the game is held on a weekend in 10 years. I'm expecting a loud, and gold crowd.

The old-timers who were around in the 70s with Al and Ray still appreciate the rivalry, and if I recall correctly, Marquette has played DePaul more times than any other school. However, recently, it's a rivalry in the same sense that a nail vs. a hammer is a rivalry. Marquette has won 33 of the last 40 meetings dating back to 1992.

Steve Taylor, Jr. a graduate of Simeon H.S. here in Chicago was asked a few years ago why he committed to Marquette instead of playing for DePaul. His answer was simply, "They're winning. DePaul doesn't win. I think if they start winning maybe Chicago kids will like them."

You are absolutely correct. It is still a rivalry in some sense but not what it use to be in the 70's and 80's.

Keep in mind, the program has been horrible for nearly a decade so ANY win against a fellow conference mate is an accomplished. I recall about 4 years ago when Marquette came to town and Mike Stovall hit a game winner and the crowd stormed the court. Better yet, just a few years ago when they beat an unranked Pitt team and the kids stormed the court. I guess if you've been so bad for so long, having those little victories really means a lot. Personally I think they are a sleeping giant, they have the money and resources but not the leadership (talking about their AD).

[stever20]

I think it's kind of interesting- the worst thing right now has been our performance on the court. All the other stuff has come up lucky 7's if you will. At some point the performance on the court has to rise- or all the other stuff just won't matter.