Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[RxJay]

Having been watching round robin games in the Valley for years two things seem most important in creating great rivalries. First success. If you don't win games it doesn't make much difference and second seeing the other team home and home every year and maybe again in the BET. The two great rivalries Creighton was involved with were Wichita State and Southern Illinois but when SIU program went down hill the rivalry also went away. It is not that much fun to beat up a bad team. So the round robin concept is very important in this development of our new rivalries.

[billyjack]

I understand what BillEsq is saying, but I agree with Bill Marsh... I'm a big fan of home-and-homes and over the years have seen rivalries develop from scratch...

So a Butler-Providence rivalry may seem odd in 2013, but a UConn-Georgetown one sounded odd in 1980 or 1988. A Syracuse-Georgetown rivalry in 1977 would've sounded nuts too. If Butler and PC excel and get ranked in the coming years, then the rivalry will develop. And really there are a zillion ways for them to start. Like if, for example, Kellen Dunham connects with a forearm to LaDontae Henton's head this year, then a rivalry will start to simmer. If Butler and PC play in the 4 vs 5 game of the BET with an NCAA bid on the line, a rivalry will develop.

Or the coaches... we have 9 head coaches under 50 years old (I think), plus Oliver Purnell... coaching personalities and quotes and all can stoke some rivalries too... and with young coaches, we'll have many of them sticking around a long time. In the 80's, we would make a point of trying to go to the Villanova games at PC because Massimino was fantastic-- his antics, his coaching ability, all that... it would've sucked to have skipped a year or two.

Also, a little OT, in the early 00's for a year or two, the BE schedule was set up so that some teams didn't even face other conference mates at all... PC didn't play Syracuse one year...

[FormulaX]

Rivalries can happen very quickly. As far as nationally recognized, rivalries? That just takes a while. I think Buler-Marquette is on it's way. (after last year, Maui and Tourney) X has been traditionally great at getting under other schools skin.
I really really hope the BE stays at 10, for at least a few years. (see what happens) Being exclusive is cool to recruits. Who will then bring successful teams. Having a bunch of top 25 ranked teams, will bring viewers to FOX.

[stever20]

Rivalries can happen very quickly. As far as nationally recognized, rivalries? That just takes a while. I think Buler-Marquette is on it's way. (after last year, Maui and Tourney) X has been traditionally great at getting under other schools skin.
I really really hope the BE stays at 10, for at least a few years. (see what happens) Being exclusive is cool to recruits. Who will then bring successful teams. Having a bunch of top 25 ranked teams, will bring viewers to FOX.

One point- we're not exclusive to Fox. They did that deal with CBS remember for 30 games starting next year.

[Noonzy]

I think the league is wise to hold off on any expansion until all of the kinks are worked out as the conference currently stands. During the next 2 years the league will have plenty of time to evaluate teams and needs if any. Could be the 10 team format workds great for all. Recruiting, is of course very important to stay a player in the national scene.

[notkirkcameron]

Rivalries have as much to do with geographic proximity as frequency. When you bump into the other schools graduates and have to listen to their smack that enhanced the rivalry. When your fighting for recruits in your own backyard that plays into the rivalry. Providence is too far away to be a real rival of Butler. A compact western and eastern division would enhance rivalries both between teams and across divisions.

I get what you're saying, and yes, I kind of roll my eyes when I see "Syracuse and Clemson....conference rivals," but in the Big East's case, splitting the round-robin league into divisions (which means unbalanced schedules, otherwise, why would you do it?) would seem to do the exact opposite of what you claimed. Interdivisional rivalries would be weakened by playing fewer times a year (For example, the Blackhawks and Maple Leafs used to be fierce rivals, but stopped playing in the same conference, so that rivalry has kind of fallen off over the last 10 years. You can find similar examples with the Colts and the rest of the AFC East). Conversely, frequency of meetings can kickstart a rivalry where there was none before (Milwaukee Brewers-Chicago Cubs).

Further, and more importantly, geographic-based divisions mean lack of east coast media exposure for the Midwest schools in the Big East. Now, instead of playing 5 games a year in the Boston-to-DC corridor where let's face it, a lot of the TV cameras and eyeballs are located, you may only be playing there twice a year. If Creighton and Butler wanted to spend almost the entire season without going farther east than Ohio, they could have done that in the Horizon League or the Valley.

A 10-team single table Big East looks a lot different for everyone involved than a Big East that looks like this
West Division: Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Expansion: SLU?
East Division: Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Expansion UMass/Richmond/Davidson/Boston U/VCU/Whatever the new Flavor of the week is

When you look at it like this, there are not enough big name programs on the East Coast that move the needle enough to warrant a divisional split and get the Midwest schools in the Big East to vote away their annual East Coast tours. That potential Big East West is basically a grown-up version of the Horizon League.

[lolhoya]

Further, and more importantly, geographic-based divisions mean lack of east coast media exposure for the Midwest schools in the Big East. Now, instead of playing 5 games a year in the Boston-to-DC corridor where let's face it, a lot of the TV cameras and eyeballs are located, you may only be playing there twice a year. If Creighton and Butler wanted to spend almost the entire season without going farther east than Ohio, they could have done that in the Horizon League or the Valley.

Pretty sure you're off here. If you do the geographic divisions (12 teams total) and stick with an 18 game schedule, Midwest teams would play each other home and home (10 games) every year. That leaves 8 games against East teams. So Midwest teams would play every East team at least once (that's 3 road games) and then two East teams twice (adding 1 more road game). That's 4 road East games a year, just 1 fewer than Midwest teams get now in the 10 team league.

Not sure how I feel about divisions overall, though.

[HoosierPal]

Rivalries can happen very quickly. As far as nationally recognized, rivalries? That just takes a while. I think Buler-Marquette is on it's way. (after last year, Maui and Tourney) X has been traditionally great at getting under other schools skin.
I really really hope the BE stays at 10, for at least a few years. (see what happens) Being exclusive is cool to recruits. Who will then bring successful teams. Having a bunch of top 25 ranked teams, will bring viewers to FOX.

On the other hand, some rivalries just never get traction. Nebraska has been in the big Ten for two years now, and no one is chomping at the bit, circled the date, when the Huskers come to town. Penn State has been in the Big Ten for what, a decade plus, and the rivalries just aren't there. And I just shrug when you mention Rutgers and Maryland coming in next year. You cannot force it, simply by putting schools under the same banner.

[Bill Marsh]

Rivalries can happen very quickly. As far as nationally recognized, rivalries? That just takes a while. I think Buler-Marquette is on it's way. (after last year, Maui and Tourney) X has been traditionally great at getting under other schools skin.
I really really hope the BE stays at 10, for at least a few years. (see what happens) Being exclusive is cool to recruits. Who will then bring successful teams. Having a bunch of top 25 ranked teams, will bring viewers to FOX.

On the other hand, some rivalries just never get traction. Nebraska has been in the big Ten for two years now, and no one is chomping at the bit, circled the date, when the Huskers come to town. Penn State has been in the Big Ten for what, a decade plus, and the rivalries just aren't there. And I just shrug when you mention Rutgers and Maryland coming in next year. You cannot force it, simply by putting schools under the same banner.

Actually Penn State has now been in the Big Ten foe TWO decades, which kind of proves your point.

[Bluejay]

Here's the deal on round-robin play: it may or may not develop rivalries, but it certainly develops familiarity. With this new conference line-up, it is important for long term stability that the C7 fanbases get familiar with the "New 3" and likewise, the New 3 fanbases have to get familiar with the C7. The university presidents know that it is important for the fanbases to have the opportunity to see every school on their home floor for a couple of years. Without that, it is hard to assimilate the programs and get everybody moving the same direction. We're in a relatively fragile situation right now and need to stabilize the current ten before adding others and risking further destabilization. That is reason A1 why expansion, if it happens at all, will not happen for a few years.

Reason A2 for holding off is entirely perception. We have seen many call the AAC "the new and improved Conference USA." The BIG EAST does not want to be referred to as the "New and Improved A10". Since in all likelihood any additions would come from the A10, that is a real possibility if the conference expands too soon. University presidents know this and FOX knows this. Unless something dramatic like a UConn dropping football happens, expansion by promoting another mid major only weakens national perception.