Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bill Marsh]

""Unless they change from what the've been over the past decade, or two, or three, there will actually be fewer intriguing games, not more""

Hey SJU, Providence, DePaul, what have you done form me lately? if you don't shape up, we will cut the league to 7 or less then we can play each other 3 or 4 times, and we will really draw in FS1 viewers with our rivalry's on steroids.

What have you done for me lately?

St. John's finished 3rd in the Big East just 3 years ago (2011) with major wins over half a dozen ranked teams that year including an upset by 15 points over defending national champions Duke that season and a 17 point win over the UConn team that went on to win the NC that year.

Providence finished .500 in the highly competitive Big East last year, tied with tournament bound Cincinnati, the 5th time since 2003 that PC has finished .500 or better in the conference. Providence has also made it a habit to knock off ranked teams year after year, demonstrating their ability to compete against the best teams the Big East has had to offer:

2013 - beat #17 Cincinnati and beat up on #21 Notre Dame by 17
2012 - blew out Lousiville by 31 on their way to the Final Four & beat defending national champion UConn
2011 - beat #19 Louisville and beat up #8 Villanova by 15 in back-to-back games
2010 - beat up #19 UConn by 15
2009 - beat #1 Pitt and #15 Syracuse

That's just the past 5 years. It's what they do every year. Outsiders don't realize just how good the second tier teams were in the old Big East.

I can't really defend Depaul because they haven't done much on the court lately. Since joining the conference they have only one season (2007) when they posted a record of .500 or better in league play. However, they do bring the conference's 2nd biggest market and have to be regarded as something of a sleeping giant. Just bringing the chicago market is a positive and if the stars become aligned and they start to wi, watch out because they could get on a roll that will be difficult to stop.

But frankly none of that really matters. The conference is what it is at this point. This group of schools has made a decision to try to make a go of it and to achieve at the highest level. Newcomers can't really compare themselves to schools that have struggled in conference because that doesn't demonstrate how those newcomers can help the conference. By making that comparison, any newcomer is basically making the case that they don't belong and that they can't help the conference achieve its goals.

[BillikensWin]

The 10 teams in the current Big East are the Big East.

It's going to stay that way.

[ivet]

The 10 teams in the current Big East are the Big East.

It's going to stay that way.

I dont understand how this conversation ended up with "What have you done for me lately?" People do realize that every conference will have teams on the lower half right? Are we expecting every single team to make the tourney every year?

Better yet, lets just break up the top 5 teams and start a new conference with Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Indiana. Let's add VCU because they made the Final Four a few years ago. Which school is the flavor of the month right now? Let's add them.

[stever20]

The 10 teams in the current Big East are the Big East.

It's going to stay that way.

like i said earlier, if the Big 12 expands(I know football related, but still the impacts would be felt by basketball as well)- I think we almost have to expand at that point. All the other conferences in basketball that are P5(plus MWC and AAC) would be more than 10- not playing round robin.

[Bill Marsh]

Worth pointing out that as far as NCAA Tournament appearances go, since 2000, even what might be considered the "bottom" of the current Big East has gotten to the tournament at least as frequently as the current expansion darlings.
Providence (2 appearances)
St. John's (3)
DePaul (2)
Seton Hall (3)

Saint Louis (3)
Dayton (4)
UMass (0)
Richmond (3)

true, but last 10 years
DePaul(1)-none since '04
Seton Hall(2)-none since '06
Providence(1)-none since '04
St John's(1)

SLU (2)
Dayton(2)
Richmond(3)
VCU(6)

You can't deny for DePaul, SH, and PC that they are in the midst of a pretty long dryspell. Don't think any go this year, while 3 of the expansion candidates likely go this year(4 if you include UMass)..

So, Steve, what you're saying is that those 4 schools have all made tournament appearances in the past 10 years, right?

Providence (2004)
Seton Hall (2004, 2006)
Depaul (2004)
St. John's (2011)

How would any of us know in December who's going to go in March? Someone could get hot and win the conference tournament. If we're going to deal in speculation, why not guess at how many times those Big East "dry spell" teams could have gone had they been playing in the A10 or the Colonial. You're simply comparing apples and oranges when you list number of tournament appearances between groups of teams from different conferences. The very fact that those expansion candidates except VCU haven't done much better than 2nd tier teams from Big East while playing in a less competitive conference is precisely why they're not strong candidates.

More significant than those expansion candidates getting to the tournament is that none of them - again with the exception of VCU - did anything in the tournament to validate their selection. All 3 of them were gone in the first weekend every time. in fact, in the only tournament matchup with any of the current Big East members, Dayton lost to DePaul in the tournament. Meanwhile the 4 incumbent conference members were playing a brutal conference schedule year after year AND coming up with big wins against the nations best teams year after year. They were clearly better than those A10/Colonial schools - except VCU - but were buried most of the time in a much tougher league.

[Bill Marsh]

When you look back a decade from now, you'll find that Hoya fans will be fired up for Butler. And Butler fans will be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the game vs the hated Providence Friars. It ain't there now, but it will be.

I'm not a gambling man but i'm willing to bet that a decade from now Butler fans will not be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the hated Providence Friars. I admit round robins are nice but seriously . Even if Providence returns to Pitino like relevance i doubt they will be hated by a school that constantly has dumped on them the legacies that are Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame. I may be wrong but my general assumption is that Butler fans eagerly anticipate playing the crossroads classic against local schools such as Indiana and Purdue every other year. My guess is if in a decade the crossroads classic has been canceled and the BE is still round robin most Butler fans would still be eagerly anticipating the resumption of the crossroads classic over the facing of the now apparently infamous Providence El Guapos If any Butler fan wants to correct me on this please do; i just don't see it.

I'll take that bet.

Not saying that local rivalries won't continue to be important but that the new conference rivalries will also be important.

See you in 10 years.

[BillEsq]

Ten years it is. But in ten years i want to be beyond a beer. i suggest a bottle of wine or bourbon. no 2 buck chuck . just curious how do you plan on quantifying anticipation or hatred.

[HoosierPal]

When you look back a decade from now, you'll find that Hoya fans will be fired up for Butler. And Butler fans will be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the game vs the hated Providence Friars. It ain't there now, but it will be.

I'm not a gambling man but i'm willing to bet that a decade from now Butler fans will not be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the hated Providence Friars. I admit round robins are nice but seriously . Even if Providence returns to Pitino like relevance i doubt they will be hated by a school that constantly has dumped on them the legacies that are Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame. I may be wrong but my general assumption is that Butler fans eagerly anticipate playing the crossroads classic against local schools such as Indiana and Purdue every other year. My guess is if in a decade the crossroads classic has been canceled and the BE is still round robin most Butler fans would still be eagerly anticipating the resumption of the crossroads classic over the facing of the now apparently infamous Providence El Guapos If any Butler fan wants to correct me on this please do; i just don't see it.

You are spot on BillEsq. Maybe us midwesterner's have a different viewpoint than our eastern brothers. Shoot yes, I'd relish playing IU or PU or ND every year. Those games would always take priority over conference games. X is already on the Black List, so that will be a game for us to provide a beating to our opponent. But after that, it's okay, who's up next. The Big East is good, and I'm glad we are in it, but it isn't the holy grail that most on this board think it is. It's a great conference, pays well, but all in all for the same money, I'd stick with our Midwestern roots. And you know, you absolutely know, that when the Football domino's fall, there will be another shift in conference alignment including the Big East. Without the two final fours, do you think the Big East would have been receptive to Butler joining? Heck no. It's not about the rivalries, it's about the money.

[Bill Marsh]

Ten years it is. But in ten years i want to be beyond a beer. i suggest a bottle of wine or bourbon. no 2 buck chuck . just curious how do you plan on quantifying anticipation or hatred.

LOL. I'll take the bourbon.

[yorost]

Good call, bourbon bet seems pretty unbalanced when one of the parties lives in Kentucky. I mean, you could win something you've never been able to try before, but poor BillEsq will probably look down on whatever you get him!