Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[tsmithohio1234]

Why is 10 the perfect number other than the round-robin, how does a perfect round robin help FS1 make more money?

Your reason for 10 may be to have better odds for your team (less competition), but again how does this bring more revenue for FS!?

If your reason for 10 is for your team to be televised more often, how does this benefit FS1?

FS1 must be considering the following
with 12 teams available for broadcast on any week they have a better chance televising a more intriguing game, i.e fewer teams mean fewer choices
also obviously 12 teams bring larger overall market share, with national alumni and regional interest increasing with each team added.

More teams is always the better scenario for FS1. They spread their fixed costs over a larger platform, they have more choices of games to broadcast, making decisions on a week to week basis. There has never been a successful league, pro or college that was more successful smaller than larger. FS1 started with 10 for a variety of reasons.
FS1 management would be fired for incompetence if they do not expand sooner than later.

[Bill Marsh]

Why is 10 the perfect number other than the round-robin, how does a perfect round robin help FS1 make more money?

Your reason for 10 may be to have better odds for your team (less competition), but again how does this bring more revenue for FS!?

If your reason for 10 is for your team to be televised more often, how does this benefit FS1?

FS1 must be considering the following
with 12 teams available for broadcast on any week they have a better chance televising a more intriguing game, i.e fewer teams mean fewer choices
also obviously 12 teams bring larger overall market share, with national alumni and regional interest increasing with each team added.

More teams is always the better scenario for FS1. They spread their fixed costs over a larger platform, they have more choices of games to broadcast, making decisions on a week to week basis. There has never been a successful league, pro or college that was more successful smaller than larger. FS1 started with 10 for a variety of reasons.
FS1 management would be fired for incompetence if they do not expand sooner than later.

"Other than round robin . . ."

Uhh . . . you're acting like round robin is no big deal.

Hmm . . . "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Come on. The whole point of having a conference is that you can actually compete against the other league members and develop rivalries with them. This move to bigger conferences completely defeat the purpose for which they were established. What they really have become is scheduling and negotiating consortiums. Conferences with 14, 15 members and more are really 2 leagues under one umbrella.

A bigger conference doesn't mean more intriguing games at all because it means that in a number of cases, your best teams will only be playing each other once a year instead of twice. It means that when the best teams do play each other, the rivalries will be less intense. There will only be more intriguing games if the conference brings in quality programs. Right now the only available schools whose track record qualifies them as that kind of program are VCU and Gonzaga. And Gonzaga is probably a bridge too far. And VCU has issues of not being a good fit. So, that apparently leaves St Louis and Dayton or Richmond. Unless they change from what the've been over the past decade, or two, or three, there will actually be fewer intriguing games, not more.

[HoosierPal]

Why is 10 the perfect number other than the round-robin, how does a perfect round robin help FS1 make more money?

Your reason for 10 may be to have better odds for your team (less competition), but again how does this bring more revenue for FS!?

If your reason for 10 is for your team to be televised more often, how does this benefit FS1?

FS1 must be considering the following
with 12 teams available for broadcast on any week they have a better chance televising a more intriguing game, i.e fewer teams mean fewer choices
also obviously 12 teams bring larger overall market share, with national alumni and regional interest increasing with each team added.

More teams is always the better scenario for FS1. They spread their fixed costs over a larger platform, they have more choices of games to broadcast, making decisions on a week to week basis. There has never been a successful league, pro or college that was more successful smaller than larger. FS1 started with 10 for a variety of reasons.
FS1 management would be fired for incompetence if they do not expand sooner than later.

Come on. The whole point of having a conference is that you can actually compete against the other league members and develop rivalries with them. This move to bigger conferences completely defeat the purpose for which they were established. What they really have become is scheduling and negotiating consortiums. Conferences with 14, 15 members and more are really 2 leagues under one umbrella.

I don't believe the Big East is set up to enhance new rivalries no matter how many teams are involved. First, to me a rivalry has to be a two way street. So are the Hoya Fans getting all fired up for Butler? Here in Indy, very few are chomping their lips for the "hated rival" Providence on Feb 23. It just ain't there. We are in a difficult position here in Indy, being in three conferences in three years. I'll get fired up for those black shirted X'katers and Marquette's Warriors (sorry never bought into the new nickname). It will take a while, but since Creighton will probably steal all the tickets they can for their visit to Hinkle, they likely will become a hated rival. Georgetown has the national monikor, but Seton Hall, St. Johns, and Villanova, they are all members of our conference, but I seriously doubt if they become what I call rivals. Sure we will sell out most games, but we did that last year in the A-10.

[redmen9194]

Rivalries can develop quickly. Remember, in the round robin formate you not only get two games against everyone, but you will at least get a third in the conference tourney against some. I recall a rivalry that exploded with just five words - Manley Fieldhouse is officially closed

[BillEsq]

Its a proven fact no rivalry has ever developed without round robins. Furthermore there have been scientific studies that round robins lead to a higher increase of rivalry.

(**note this scientific study did not take into account proximity of rivals or similarity of rival institutions, however it is highly unlikely that these factors are the primary causes and indicators of rivalry. In fact clinical studies have shown models which indicate that after 3,000 years a round robin style play could even create a meaningful rivalry between UC Irvine and Mount St. Mary's.) warning overexposure to round robins could lead to delusions, confusion, and unnecessary sweating during tournament selection processes. Those seeking to use round robins should seek guidance from a licensed brackatologist, in some instances a general enlargement of the rpi, bpi, kenpom, and sagrin ratings will be seen, such increases could lead to a decrease in overall tourney appearances

[tsmithohio1234]

""Unless they change from what the've been over the past decade, or two, or three, there will actually be fewer intriguing games, not more""

Hey SJU, Providence, DePaul, what have you done form me lately? if you don't shape up, we will cut the league to 7 or less then we can play each other 3 or 4 times, and we will really draw in FS1 viewers with our rivalry's on steroids.

[Bill Marsh]

Why is 10 the perfect number other than the round-robin, how does a perfect round robin help FS1 make more money?

Your reason for 10 may be to have better odds for your team (less competition), but again how does this bring more revenue for FS!?

If your reason for 10 is for your team to be televised more often, how does this benefit FS1?

FS1 must be considering the following
with 12 teams available for broadcast on any week they have a better chance televising a more intriguing game, i.e fewer teams mean fewer choices
also obviously 12 teams bring larger overall market share, with national alumni and regional interest increasing with each team added.

More teams is always the better scenario for FS1. They spread their fixed costs over a larger platform, they have more choices of games to broadcast, making decisions on a week to week basis. There has never been a successful league, pro or college that was more successful smaller than larger. FS1 started with 10 for a variety of reasons.
FS1 management would be fired for incompetence if they do not expand sooner than later.

Come on. The whole point of having a conference is that you can actually compete against the other league members and develop rivalries with them. This move to bigger conferences completely defeat the purpose for which they were established. What they really have become is scheduling and negotiating consortiums. Conferences with 14, 15 members and more are really 2 leagues under one umbrella.

I don't believe the Big East is set up to enhance new rivalries no matter how many teams are involved. First, to me a rivalry has to be a two way street. So are the Hoya Fans getting all fired up for Butler? Here in Indy, very few are chomping their lips for the "hated rival" Providence on Feb 23. It just ain't there. We are in a difficult position here in Indy, being in three conferences in three years. I'll get fired up for those black shirted X'katers and Marquette's Warriors (sorry never bought into the new nickname). It will take a while, but since Creighton will probably steal all the tickets they can for their visit to Hinkle, they likely will become a hated rival. Georgetown has the national monikor, but Seton Hall, St. Johns, and Villanova, they are all members of our conference, but I seriously doubt if they become what I call rivals. Sure we will sell out most games, but we did that last year in the A-10.

You're making my point for me. Butler has no rivalries with the other Big East members except for Xavier because they haven't ever played them. The more you play your conference rivals, the more intense a rivalry becomes. That's why double round robin is so important to building a conference. You play EVERY other conference member at home EVERY year. Your fans get to see them and cheer against them EVERY year. When a league breaks into divisions as it does in 12 team leagues, that doesn't happen.

When you look back a decade from now, you'll find that Hoya fans will be fired up for Butler. And Butler fans will be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the game vs the hated Providence Friars. It ain't there now, but it will be.

[notkirkcameron]

""Unless they change from what the've been over the past decade, or two, or three, there will actually be fewer intriguing games, not more""

Hey SJU, Providence, DePaul, what have you done form me lately? if you don't shape up, we will cut the league to 7 or less then we can play each other 3 or 4 times, and we will really draw in FS1 viewers with our rivalry's on steroids.

Worth pointing out that as far as NCAA Tournament appearances go, since 2000, even what might be considered the "bottom" of the current Big East has gotten to the tournament at least as frequently as the current expansion darlings.
Providence (2 appearances)
St. John's (3)
DePaul (2)
Seton Hall (3)

Saint Louis (3)
Dayton (4)
UMass (0)
Richmond (3)

[stever20]

""Unless they change from what the've been over the past decade, or two, or three, there will actually be fewer intriguing games, not more""

Hey SJU, Providence, DePaul, what have you done form me lately? if you don't shape up, we will cut the league to 7 or less then we can play each other 3 or 4 times, and we will really draw in FS1 viewers with our rivalry's on steroids.

Worth pointing out that as far as NCAA Tournament appearances go, since 2000, even what might be considered the "bottom" of the current Big East has gotten to the tournament at least as frequently as the current expansion darlings.
Providence (2 appearances)
St. John's (3)
DePaul (2)
Seton Hall (3)

Saint Louis (3)
Dayton (4)
UMass (0)
Richmond (3)

true, but last 10 years
DePaul(1)-none since '04
Seton Hall(2)-none since '06
Providence(1)-none since '04
St John's(1)

SLU (2)
Dayton(2)
Richmond(3)
VCU(6)

You can't deny for DePaul, SH, and PC that they are in the midst of a pretty long dryspell. Don't think any go this year, while 3 of the expansion candidates likely go this year(4 if you include UMass)..

[BillEsq]

When you look back a decade from now, you'll find that Hoya fans will be fired up for Butler. And Butler fans will be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the game vs the hated Providence Friars. It ain't there now, but it will be.

I'm not a gambling man but i'm willing to bet that a decade from now Butler fans will not be chomping at the bit in anticipation of the hated Providence Friars. I admit round robins are nice but seriously . Even if Providence returns to Pitino like relevance i doubt they will be hated by a school that constantly has dumped on them the legacies that are Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame. I may be wrong but my general assumption is that Butler fans eagerly anticipate playing the crossroads classic against local schools such as Indiana and Purdue every other year. My guess is if in a decade the crossroads classic has been canceled and the BE is still round robin most Butler fans would still be eagerly anticipating the resumption of the crossroads classic over the facing of the now apparently infamous Providence El Guapos If any Butler fan wants to correct me on this please do; i just don't see it.