Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Frank the Tank]

People need to think long-term off-the-court as opposed to on-the-court preferences.

For fans and coaches, 10 teams and the double round-robin might be attractive. However, conference strength today is about branding and market power and there's absolutely a risk in staying at 10 when the power players are going to 12 or 14 or beyond. Staying at 10 leaves little margin for error, particularly when there isn't an anchor like Duke/Kansas/Kentucky/Indiana/UNC that will draw TV eyeballs even when they have mediocre seasons.

To me, SLU is a lock when (not *if*) the Big East expands. I'm not a SLU fan and I don't have any relationship with the school, but it's pretty simple: it's a complete cultural fit with the rest of the Big East in a large (for college sports purposes) market that geographically makes sense (especially with Creighton in the league). As long as SLU is simply mediocre on-the-court (i.e. doesn't turn into complete dogs**t like Duquesne has done over the past couple of decades), their market, cultural fit and location is more than good enough to justify an invite to the UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS (*not* the athletic directors, coaches or fans) that make these decisions. SLU essentially hits every single off-the-court metric (all of which are fixed and won't ever change), which is actually much more difficult to achieve than the on-the-court metrics (which vary year-to-year).

Gonzaga is fun for a fantasy conference, but the reality is that you can't add schools just as a basketball-only, which is the only way that it is even feasible for the Big East. Every Gonzaga (or BYU or other western school) proposal MUST take into account full membership for all sports and that's just untenable regardless of how much value Gonzaga might add for basketball. It's not just the distance - Gonzaga isn't even in a place like Seattle where there is a critical mass of commercial flights for non-revenue sports to utilize.

So, beyond SLU, there are basically the usual suspects of Dayton, Richmond and VCU. All of them have a major off-the-court flaw (market size for Dayton, institution and fan base size for Richmond, and lack of cultural fit as a public school for VCU). The other school that I'd throw into the mix that I don't see mentioned as often is Davidson. They have a similar institution/fan base size issue as Richmond, but the academic reputation of the school is impeccable, the recent on-the-court performance has been strong, and the Charlotte market trumps the Richmond market. Regardless, I firmly believe the Big East will expand "soon" (meaning within the next couple of years) with SLU and whoever ends up shining the brightest among the other schools that I just listed during that time period.

[ArmyVet]

People need to think long-term off-the-court as opposed to on-the-court preferences.

I like your reasoning and think more people need to take this approach when offering opinions. I do think the BigEast would be questioned, however, if they add schools without an NCAA pedigree. None of the schools save VCU (which I think is a long shot) have had any NCAA success over the last 20 years. If I'm Ackerman, I do nothing and wait to see what happens in the landscape of college hoops over the next 4-5 years. If an opportunity arises to add someone like UConn because of shifting NCAA/football leagues, be ready to move.

[Bill Marsh]

People need to think long-term off-the-court as opposed to on-the-court preferences.

For fans and coaches, 10 teams and the double round-robin might be attractive. However, conference strength today is about branding and market power and there's absolutely a risk in staying at 10 when the power players are going to 12 or 14 or beyond. Staying at 10 leaves little margin for error, particularly when there isn't an anchor like Duke/Kansas/Kentucky/Indiana/UNC that will draw TV eyeballs even when they have mediocre seasons.

To me, SLU is a lock when (not *if*) the Big East expands. I'm not a SLU fan and I don't have any relationship with the school, but it's pretty simple: it's a complete cultural fit with the rest of the Big East in a large (for college sports purposes) market that geographically makes sense (especially with Creighton in the league). As long as SLU is simply mediocre on-the-court (i.e. doesn't turn into complete dogs**t like Duquesne has done over the past couple of decades), their market, cultural fit and location is more than good enough to justify an invite to the UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS (*not* the athletic directors, coaches or fans) that make these decisions. SLU essentially hits every single off-the-court metric (all of which are fixed and won't ever change), which is actually much more difficult to achieve than the on-the-court metrics (which vary year-to-year).

Gonzaga is fun for a fantasy conference, but the reality is that you can't add schools just as a basketball-only, which is the only way that it is even feasible for the Big East. Every Gonzaga (or BYU or other western school) proposal MUST take into account full membership for all sports and that's just untenable regardless of how much value Gonzaga might add for basketball. It's not just the distance - Gonzaga isn't even in a place like Seattle where there is a critical mass of commercial flights for non-revenue sports to utilize.

So, beyond SLU, there are basically the usual suspects of Dayton, Richmond and VCU. All of them have a major off-the-court flaw (market size for Dayton, institution and fan base size for Richmond, and lack of cultural fit as a public school for VCU). The other school that I'd throw into the mix that I don't see mentioned as often is Davidson. They have a similar institution/fan base size issue as Richmond, but the academic reputation of the school is impeccable, the recent on-the-court performance has been strong, and the Charlotte market trumps the Richmond market. Regardless, I firmly believe the Big East will expand "soon" (meaning within the next couple of years) with SLU and whoever ends up shining the brightest among the other schools that I just listed during that time period.

The Big East simply cannot go to 12 with 2 Midwest additions. Davidson is too far out of the footprint and too small to be of much benefit either in ticket sales or TV ratings, both of which matter. Home attendance last year averaged less than 4,000, which screams mid major. That leaves only VCU.

[GumbyDamnit!]

People need to think long-term off-the-court as opposed to on-the-court preferences.

I like your reasoning and think more people need to take this approach when offering opinions. I do think the BigEast would be questioned, however, if they add schools without an NCAA pedigree. None of the schools save VCU (which I think is a long shot) have had any NCAA success over the last 20 years. If I'm Ackerman, I do nothing and wait to see what happens in the landscape of college hoops over the next 4-5 years. If an opportunity arises to add someone like UConn because of shifting NCAA/football leagues, be ready to move.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^ Add ND to UCONN, if you can lure them back in a few years and I'm intrigued. SLU, Richmond, Davidson? Eh....

[muskienick]

People need to think long-term off-the-court as opposed to on-the-court preferences.

I like your reasoning and think more people need to take this approach when offering opinions. I do think the BigEast would be questioned, however, if they add schools without an NCAA pedigree. None of the schools save VCU (which I think is a long shot) have had any NCAA success over the last 20 years. If I'm Ackerman, I do nothing and wait to see what happens in the landscape of college hoops over the next 4-5 years. If an opportunity arises to add someone like UConn because of shifting NCAA/football leagues, be ready to move.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^ Add ND to UCONN, if you can lure them back in a few years and I'm intrigued. SLU, Richmond, Davidson? Eh....

Xavier is in the ideal Conference for its situation. As attractive as it would be to have ND and UConn as members of the Big East, I cannot see where it would be beneficial for ND to make the switch from the ACC as long as they permit the Irish to remain independent in football.

And to admit UConn to the Big East would be mutually beneficial to their basketball and that of the Big East. However, it would be a return to the old BE's situation of "looking over our collective shoulders" to see who might be cherry-picking them for all-sports membership in a Conference like the ACC or Big Ten should they enjoy future successes on the gridiron (although Rutgers didn't seem to need much (if any) success in either "money-sport" to be attractive to the B1G).

[anXUfan]

No lead to look over your shoulder anymore with the "grant of rights" innovation. If you can get all teams to sign up.

[HoosierPal]

Based on today's early results, the Flavor of the Month Club has eliminated VCU from future expansion discussion and substituted Saint Peters. You gotta love those Peacocks.

[adoraz11]

Based on today's early results, the Flavor of the Month Club has eliminated VCU from future expansion discussion and substituted Saint Peters. You gotta love those Peacocks.

Hah, I still think VCU is the best (realistic) option as they've been the best team (aside from Gonzaga) over the past decade or so. They'll make the tournament this year I'm sure and can say that with more confidence than most current BE teams.

[Dew]

Based on today's early results, the Flavor of the Month Club has eliminated VCU from future expansion discussion and substituted Saint Peters. You gotta love those Peacocks.

Hah, I still think VCU is the best (realistic) option as they've been the best team (aside from Gonzaga) over the past decade or so. They'll make the tournament this year I'm sure and can say that with more confidence than most current BE teams.

You're sure? Based on what?

[adoraz11]

Based on today's early results, the Flavor of the Month Club has eliminated VCU from future expansion discussion and substituted Saint Peters. You gotta love those Peacocks.

Hah, I still think VCU is the best (realistic) option as they've been the best team (aside from Gonzaga) over the past decade or so. They'll make the tournament this year I'm sure and can say that with more confidence than most current BE teams.

You're sure? Based on what?

Well "I'm sure" wasn't the best phrase to use (meant to say pretty sure), but I still think they have a better chance than most BE teams. I'd give them a 75% chance. Northern Iowa is a decent team this year.