Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Hoopfan]

To the common fan many of BE teams are not known. I used to mix up Villanova and Vanderbilt, St. John and st joe, etc. Georgetown is the biggest name. To really set them apart BE has to do big things in next 2-3 years and really this year may be more important to take the media momentum into next year

[Lavinwood]

To the common fan many of BE teams are not known. I used to mix up Villanova and Vanderbilt, St. John and st joe, etc. Georgetown is the biggest name. To really set them apart BE has to do big things in next 2-3 years and really this year may be more important to take the media momentum into next year

By common fan do you mean clueless fan? Plenty of people know SJU, Nova, G'Town, Marquette, etc. How can you confuse Nova and Vandy? Totally different colors and histories. St. Joe's (Philly) gets confused with St. John's (Queens) which gets confused with St. Joe's (Brooklyn/LI) which also gets confused with St. John the Baptist (catholic HS on LI). When people refer to "St. John's basketball" though, they know you assume the Big East version.

[Bill Marsh]

Common guys. Richmond is an excellent school. A pissing contest over that doesn't make much sense.

I don't believe expansion is coming any time soon. Think about it: if numbers 11 and 12 were already sufficiently obvious, then this thing would have been teed up with 12 out of the gate. As it was, it cranked up in a 7 + 2 + 1 sequence.

Back to Richmond. What if in 3 to 4 years they've nailed at least a couple NCAA Tournament runs, have demonstrated sustainable success under Mooney, have locked him up under a nice contract, and are running along at 95% capacity in their nicely refurbished arena? Then, on top of that, they receive a Big East invite to further validate their program? Is this a brand issue for some of you, in the sense that the Spiders have always been looked at as a giant killer, or could you see them as a successful, sustainable conference mate? The point - a point - is that things can adjust over time.

Otherwise, I'll offer this again here and I'm not going to debate it - so you may take it or leave it: the Big East Presidents own the decision to expand or not to expand. It starts and ends with them, but not without them obviously taking input from Fox.

If it is this obvious that numbers 11 and 12 are not obvious at this point, then expansion, if it is ever pursued, would logically seem off in the distance, not something that happens next season or even the season thereafter.

Sure. Fox will have nothing to say about it. They're a charity organization that is in the business of donating to private institutions of higher education. Adding a school of 3,000 for elite rich kids is precisely the formula they've concocted to achieve their mission.

[Hoopfan]

To the common fan many of BE teams are not known. I used to mix up Villanova and Vanderbilt, St. John and st joe, etc. Georgetown is the biggest name. To really set them apart BE has to do big things in next 2-3 years and really this year may be more important to take the media momentum into next year

By common fan do you mean clueless fan? Plenty of people know SJU, Nova, G'Town, Marquette, etc. How can you confuse Nova and Vandy? Totally different colors and histories. St. Joe's (Philly) gets confused with St. John's (Queens) which gets confused with St. Joe's (Brooklyn/LI) which also gets confused with St. John the Baptist (catholic HS on LI). When people refer to "St. John's basketball" though, they know you assume the Big East version.

Believe it or not, outside of the east coast those are not name brand schools. Like i said, Georgetown is and Midwest knows Marquette but to a casual observer/fan it's all the same if your name isn't unc, duke, ucla, etc

[Bulldog_Muskie]

Growing up in the midwest, I was really only aware of Gtown, Nova, Marq, and St John's to a lesser extent from the old BE. I knew about X and Butler, but never heard of Creighton until relatively recently. I wasn't exactly a fanatic but though.


Actually I specifically remember being SHOCKED that Providence beat my illini at some point a few years ago

[billyjack]

I still get St Francis of New York confused with St Francis of Pennsylvania... other than that, I think I'm ok...

[GumbyDamnit!]

Growing up in the midwest, I was really only aware of Gtown, Nova, Marq, and St John's to a lesser extent from the old BE. I knew about X and Butler, but never heard of Creighton until relatively recently. I wasn't exactly a fanatic but though.

I guess we'll give you a pass BM but anyone who is not aware of schools like Seton Hall, Valpo, LaSalle, Bucknell, Davidson, Bradley, Gonzaga, Prov, Loyola Marymount, Creighton, etc simply is not a college basketball fan. Have you hibernated during March every year or are you relatively young?

[Bill Marsh]

Team rankings can have Seton Hall and DePaul 122 and just outside top 100, but if they go 3-15 or 2-16, they're going to be down near 200 no matter what. DePaul last year was 2-16 and I think 204. And Seton Hall may be in a position to hurt us even more this year quite frankly if they go 3-15. They could be the 122nd best team- but their record wouldn't support that. And yes, if they are 200th, they would be a rpi killer and far from a strength. And in every other power conference outside the Big 12, most times that bottom team isn't playing the top teams a 2nd time.

Every year when you see coverage, do you see a list of conferences with most bids? yes. Will they mention it a lot more this year than in past years? Of course.

Oh and I'm looking at your Teamrankings.com(great site by the way)....
Seton Hall 143 right now
DePaul actully 83 right now

If Big East expanded with Dayton and St Louis- why would the top teams have to play Seton Hall and DePaul 3 times even? With 12 teams, you'd play everyone once and 7 teams 2x.

Sorry for the delay in responding. Busy week.

I didn't say you'd HAVE TO play those 2 teams 3 times. I said that's the way they do it in every other power conference that has 12+ teams. You play your own division twice and the other division once. Obviously the Big east can do whatever it wants, but unless they resort to some kind of scheduling gimmick - and gimmicks have their own problems- then it would simply change from 4 games to 3 vs those to teams since they' would be in opposite divisions.

[Bill Marsh]

I like divisonal play, home/home within your division and alternating home/away games with other division. With 10 teams you're going to get tired of playing the same conference foes 3X a year, some more so than others. The every other year home game against the other division makes the home encounter with the alternte div team a game as a spectator you don't want to miss because you only get to see them every other year. Additionally the tourney brackets greatly reduce the chance for the annual 3X matchups. If NBE stays at 10 then you'll soon be on the same page with me, playing the same team over and over is boring unless the 3rd game is for the Championship.

Ask any national basketball pundit and they will tell you that ten teams is perfect for a college basketball league. Home and home with everyone is perfect.

^^^^^^^This is worth repeating.^^^^^^^^

[Bill Marsh]

There is all of 0% chance Gonzaga joins this league (for just so many reasons it isn't worth listing). I'd give VCU about a 5% chance, only because, well you never know.

Its going to be some combination of St. Louis, Richmond, and UD - and rightfully so. Possibly some powerhouse private team emerges on the East coast in the next 4-5 years that is not currently in a Big East market, but I don't see it.

If this is the case, then this league has lower aspirations than I thought they did.