Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[GumbyDamnit!]

You want in? Commit to your program. Hire a big name coach. Do some damage in the tourney. ...... Put on your big boy pants and put some pressure on your administration to use some of that big endowment on being a great basketball school.

If by making a $20M investment in our facility to make it one of the premiere on campus facilities in the A10 or BE, investing roughly $12M over 10 years in Mooney (with the paltry $400k per year from the A10 tv deal, as you note) it shows non commitment, perhaps you are right.

The only thing we haven't done is lower the floor on the Admissions office like you guys do. With an apparent unwillingness to do that, I question whether the move is right or not for us too.

This is about results. 2 NCAA appearances in a decade. You're right the move is probably not right for you. And you can shove your backhanded remarks about lowering admissions standards up your ass. You think Richmond is an Ivy league school. It's not. Go post on your A10 board.

[Lavinwood]

Did a Richmond fan really just make fun of Big East academics? Umm…Nova, G'Town, PC, and Butler are very tough schools to get into. 3 of those are top 50 nationally. SJ and SHU are both good schools but they are located in very diverse areas and their missions make them seek diversity more-so than academic rigor. Still good schools though especially when you get to the graduate level at SJU with Law, Pharmacology, Business, and Psych.

Richmond? Haha…no thank you.

[stever20]

I would kind of think that as long as VCU is spitting out top 25 seasons and making some noise in the tourney that Richmond has no chance of joining the BE. Not saying the BE would take VCU(though I think they should), but rather I don't think the presidents would want to deal with all the questions about why Richmond when a much better basketball program is in the same city and you took the weaker one. I don't think those questions are nearly as loud if they take 2 others(like SLU and Dayton).

[Xudash]

Common guys. Richmond is an excellent school. A pissing contest over that doesn't make much sense.

I don't believe expansion is coming any time soon. Think about it: if numbers 11 and 12 were already sufficiently obvious, then this thing would have been teed up with 12 out of the gate. As it was, it cranked up in a 7 + 2 + 1 sequence.

Back to Richmond. What if in 3 to 4 years they've nailed at least a couple NCAA Tournament runs, have demonstrated sustainable success under Mooney, have locked him up under a nice contract, and are running along at 95% capacity in their nicely refurbished arena? Then, on top of that, they receive a Big East invite to further validate their program? Is this a brand issue for some of you, in the sense that the Spiders have always been looked at as a giant killer, or could you see them as a successful, sustainable conference mate? The point - a point - is that things can adjust over time.

Otherwise, I'll offer this again here and I'm not going to debate it - so you may take it or leave it: the Big East Presidents own the decision to expand or not to expand. It starts and ends with them, but not without them obviously taking input from Fox.

If it is this obvious that numbers 11 and 12 are not obvious at this point, then expansion, if it is ever pursued, would logically seem off in the distance, not something that happens next season or even the season thereafter.

[BEwannabe]

Did a Richmond fan really just make fun of Big East academics? Umm…Nova, G'Town, PC, and Butler are very tough schools to get into. 3 of those are top 50 nationally. SJ and SHU are both good schools but they are located in very diverse areas and their missions make them seek diversity more-so than academic rigor. Still good schools though especially when you get to the graduate level at SJU with Law, Pharmacology, Business, and Psych.

Richmond? Haha…no thank you.

Not sure if he was poking fun or not but it's definitely harder to get into Richmond than any other NBE school except Georgetown. The schools your listing are fine schools but from an admissions standpoint are not considered in the difficult to get into for kids with 30+ ACTtype standaedized scores...rather oft times for East coact preps used as backup plans for kids that don't get admitted to Ivies, Gtown or BC.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Did a Richmond fan really just make fun of Big East academics? Umm…Nova, G'Town, PC, and Butler are very tough schools to get into. 3 of those are top 50 nationally. SJ and SHU are both good schools but they are located in very diverse areas and their missions make them seek diversity more-so than academic rigor. Still good schools though especially when you get to the graduate level at SJU with Law, Pharmacology, Business, and Psych.

Richmond? Haha…no thank you.

Not sure if he was poking fun or not but it's definitely harder to get into Richmond than any other NBE school except Georgetown. The schools your listing are fine schools but from an admissions standpoint are not considered in the difficult to get into for kids with 30+ ACTtype standaedized scores...rather oft times for East coact preps used as backup plans for kids that don't get admitted to Ivies, Gtown or BC.

That was not the point at all. This is not a discussion on which academic institutions are the best fit for a basketball conference. His inference, specifically, was that Richmond was perhaps "above" lowering their admission standards for basketball talent. It was a trolling jab at me and Villanova, which by most of the #'s (incoming SAT and ACT scores, etc.) is on par with Richmond academically. But it is a completely invalid point anyway. Last year V'nova brought in 3 recruits: one from Sidwell Friends, an exclusive private school in DC, a second from Gonzaga, another excellent school in the DC area and Lower Merion which has been ranked the best public school system in PA for as long as I remember. So to say that in order for Richmond to compete as a basketball power they would have to lower their admissions standards to Villanova's level is ridiculous. He was trying to cause a reaction but he didn't do his research.

Now to your point, I think an extended period of success from Richmond would absolutely warrant consideration. But how long? 3 years? 5? 10? Why is everyone so willing to jump at the first team that makes one run? And giant killers? Richmond has been in the tourney twice in a decade. That is a inconvenient fact for those making the case for Richmond.

[Moliva]

That was not the point at all. This is not a discussion on which academic institutions are the best fit for a basketball conference. His inference, specifically, was that Richmond was perhaps "above" lowering their admission standards for basketball talent. It was a trolling jab at me and Villanova, which by most of the #'s (incoming SAT and ACT scores, etc.) is on par with Richmond academically. But it is a completely invalid point anyway. Last year V'nova brought in 3 recruits: one from Sidwell Friends, an exclusive private school in DC, a second from Gonzaga, another excellent school in the DC area and Lower Merion which has been ranked the best public school system in PA for as long as I remember. So to say that in order for Richmond to compete as a basketball power they would have to lower their admissions standards to Villanova's level is ridiculous. He was trying to cause a reaction but he didn't do his research.

You're correct on all counts but I wasn't trying to poke you or Villanova in the eye specifically. We cannot get the guys with the welding certificates from Massanutten Military Academy, Harvgrave Military, Oak Hill, (insert 2 year basketball factory here) of the world past the admissions office. We can't get kids from Community Colleges past our admissions office.

We would have loved to get Kris Jenkins at Richmond but he went to a similar school in a better basketball conference. If we were in the same conference as Villanova, i think we'd be getting a fair amount of recruiting wins with kids like Jenkins. But we're not, so we don't.

We've made 3 NCAA trips in 10 years but your point is valid, overall, about on court performance. It did take Mooney 3-4 years to clean up Jerry Wainwright's mess. Ask a Depaul fan about how that works.

Do I, at least, get a fruit basket for watching last night's double header?

[ArmyVet]

I'm okay with the general discussion of possible expansion at some point but you people using December 2013 RPI's as a reason why a particular team or school should be considered are so far out of bounds that you make the rest of your posts not worth reading. A couple of posters here need to dial it back a bit or you risk ruining the very argument you're trying to make.

[HoosierPal]

I'm okay with the general discussion of possible expansion at some point but you people using December 2013 RPI's as a reason why a particular team or school should be considered are so far out of bounds that you make the rest of your posts not worth reading. A couple of posters here need to dial it back a bit or you risk ruining the very argument you're trying to make.

BIngo! A rational post! The Flavor of the Month Club.

[Lavinwood]

Villanova is much more popular than Richmond. I can see why he's mad. They have the sports history, stage, and academics that Richmond cannot top.