Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bluejay]

1 big thing is if you have a team like DePaul who last year was RPI 200, everyone has to see them 2x. Whereas with even 11 teams, you don't see that rpi 200 team 2nd time. Another thing is like with the A10, you can gerrymander your schedule, so your stronger schools play each other 2x and keep their rpi's higher. Can't do that with a double round robin.

So the whole foundation to your position is that a bigger conference allows you to avoid the worst teams more? I doubt the argument, but even assuming it is true, the impact on RPI would be pretty minimal, barring 200+ RPI teams at the bottom. This year in particular, where our bottom teams seem to be better than the bottom teams in most conferences, I think your argument is even weaker. Assuming Seton Hall, our worst RPI performer at the moment, doesn't move too far from their present 160, I think the double round robin may help this year (Depaul is a pleasant early surprise).

The problem with the BE this year, assuming we have agreement that there is one, is that there is a lack of really good teams (i.e., top 15 or better) in the conference. I'd agree that adding a perennial top 15 school would strengthen the conference, but it isn't like there are many of those types of schools out there that are looking to join us.

Also, if you have 12 teams, you have realistically a lot better shot of getting at least 5 if not 6 teams in.

This isn't an argument or an explanation; you're simply just repeating your thesis.

[Bill Marsh]

If the impetus for this is coming from Fox, as it likely is

Where is the fact about this? FOX probably is considering bigger things than who to add to the Big East. Seriously, NBA, MLB, Champions League, etc. are all up soon and available. Don't think #11 & #12 is at the top of the list.

I can't pull you up a link, but my memory is that right from the inception of this league there has been talk about going to 12 or more and those reports were sometimes linked to Fox

I'm also speculating,based on the fact that other than TV there is absolutely no benefit to the Big East to go beyond 10, so where else would the impetus be coming from?

[Bill Marsh]

What I was saying about marquette- if they lose to Wisconsin, New Mexico, so 8-5 OOC. Then goes 10-8 in conference play and finishes 4th. Goes 1-1 in BET. They're 19-14. I'd say odds are pretty good that they get left out- especially if 2-3 bids got stolen in conference tourney play.

Raw numbers do matter. I mean, you know if we got 4 and ACC got 7 what would be said.... even though it's close to the same percentage... You never see percentage of teams mentioned, just the # of bids- listed in order of most to least.

As far as 10 teams- everyone getting a shot at nova- true. but also at same time, means everyone has to play DePaul and SH 2x.

I'm still not following. What you've just concocted is completely hypothetical. I can create other hypotheticals, to get the conference to 4 or 5.

For example, Matquette goes 10-8, but so does a second team. The other team has a better OOC record, so they do go as the conference's 4th team. That actually happened last year when both Cincinnati AND Providence went 9-9. Cincinnati with the better OOC record went to the tournament and PC did not.

On top of that a 6th team not in the top 5 wins the conference tournament. That team gets the automatic bid and the conference now has 5 teams in the NCAAtourney.

Just to make it more interesting, Marquette goes to the conference finals, winning a couple of more games along the way to add to their win total, upsetting #1 seed Villanova along the way. All of a sudden, Marquette is going to the dance despite the losses in November and December.

Taw numbers of bids matter to whom? They don't matter to me. Who cares what will be said? Lots of things get said. Remember 2011 when the Big East got 11 bids? Remember all those 1st and 2 ND's round losses? 9 teams were eliminated in the first weekend with only 2 left standing. The Big East took tremendous abuse as being overrated and overhyped. Had UConn not won the championship that year, we'd still be hearing about it. Numbers can cut both ways, backfiring on the conference if it doesn't take advantage of the opportunity.

So what if everyone has to play Seton Hall and DePaul twice. They actually represent the strength of the conference this year. Team Rankings has SHU rated at #122 right now and DePaul right outside the top 100. They represent pretty good value for the bottom of a conference. Compare them to the bottom of other conferences, which are typically much worse.

My point though is that if the Big East expands with mediocre additions like Dayton and St Louis, not only will top teams have to play Seton Hall and DePaul 3 times instead of 4' they'll also have 3 more games against the new mediocre additions. It's not like those 2 are any guarantee of quality. If the conference were bringing in Gonzaga and VCU, that would be another matter, but those two range from the impractical to the unlikely.

The only way to improve the quality of the league is to add quality programs, not simply to add numbers.

[tsmithohio1234]

Here is the reason 10 is too small - The Big East on TV looks like Div II

With the present composition you have SH, SJ, Providence, Villanova all playing in small gyms and with really low attendance and in most cases and adding DePaul with very low attendance relatively speaking. What national audience wants to watch DePaul play Villanova in a gym filled with maybe 3000 patrons. By expanding, especially with SLU, UD, VCU etc you raise the profile of the league by allowing FOX not to nationally televise from the band box venues as often.

[stever20]

Team rankings can have Seton Hall and DePaul 122 and just outside top 100, but if they go 3-15 or 2-16, they're going to be down near 200 no matter what. DePaul last year was 2-16 and I think 204. And Seton Hall may be in a position to hurt us even more this year quite frankly if they go 3-15. They could be the 122nd best team- but their record wouldn't support that. And yes, if they are 200th, they would be a rpi killer and far from a strength. And in every other power conference outside the Big 12, most times that bottom team isn't playing the top teams a 2nd time.

Every year when you see coverage, do you see a list of conferences with most bids? yes. Will they mention it a lot more this year than in past years? Of course.

Oh and I'm looking at your Teamrankings.com(great site by the way)....
Seton Hall 143 right now
DePaul actully 83 right now

If Big East expanded with Dayton and St Louis- why would the top teams have to play Seton Hall and DePaul 3 times even? With 12 teams, you'd play everyone once and 7 teams 2x.

[BEwannabe]

I like divisonal play, home/home within your division and alternating home/away games with other division. With 10 teams you're going to get tired of playing the same conference foes 3X a year, some more so than others. The every other year home game against the other division makes the home encounter with the alternte div team a game as a spectator you don't want to miss because you only get to see them every other year. Additionally the tourney brackets greatly reduce the chance for the annual 3X matchups. If NBE stays at 10 then you'll soon be on the same page with me, playing the same team over and over is boring unless the 3rd game is for the Championship.

[admin]

I like divisonal play, home/home within your division and alternating home/away games with other division. With 10 teams you're going to get tired of playing the same conference foes 3X a year, some more so than others. The every other year home game against the other division makes the home encounter with the alternte div team a game as a spectator you don't want to miss because you only get to see them every other year. Additionally the tourney brackets greatly reduce the chance for the annual 3X matchups. If NBE stays at 10 then you'll soon be on the same page with me, playing the same team over and over is boring unless the 3rd game is for the Championship.

Ask any national basketball pundit and they will tell you that ten teams is perfect for a college basketball league. Home and home with everyone is perfect.

[Hoopfan]

Here is the reason 10 is too small - The Big East on TV looks like Div II

With the present composition you have SH, SJ, Providence, Villanova all playing in small gyms and with really low attendance and in most cases and adding DePaul with very low attendance relatively speaking. What national audience wants to watch DePaul play Villanova in a gym filled with maybe 3000 patrons. By expanding, especially with SLU, UD, VCU etc you raise the profile of the league by allowing FOX not to nationally televise from the band box venues as often.

Please ban this troll posing as a dayton fan. It's obvious it's someone trying to give a fan base a bad rep

[DeltaV]

Here is the reason 10 is too small - The Big East on TV looks like Div II

With the present composition you have SH, SJ, Providence, Villanova all playing in small gyms and with really low attendance and in most cases and adding DePaul with very low attendance relatively speaking. What national audience wants to watch DePaul play Villanova in a gym filled with maybe 3000 patrons. By expanding, especially with SLU, UD, VCU etc you raise the profile of the league by allowing FOX not to nationally televise from the band box venues as often.

You can't tell the size of a venue on TV.

You're more likely to make the Big East look mid-major by adding teams that the average Joe doesn't know about. And no, the average Joe doesn't know about Dayton, no matter how desperately they think they're known.

[Moliva]

Richmond fan checking in while watching Seton Hall and LIU from the home of the Jersey Devils on FS1. Remind me why, exactly, we don't belong again?

Good Lord.