Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[TheDon]

Stay at 10. Pretty simple.

[stever20]

I think if the league gets burned by having 10 teams getting only 3 teams in tourney a time or two, and things will change quickly. The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

Why would a quality 10 team league get burned with only 3 bids? That only happens when quality is down and adding numbers doesn't improve quality. The only way to enhance the ability of,the conference to get bids is to bring in programs that enhance the quality of the league.

Last year the SEC got only 3 bids and the ACC got only four. In neither case was it because the conference was too small. In contrast a 9 member Mountain West got 5 bids. Size didn't stop them. The 10 member Big XII also got 5 bids. Again size did not stand in the way. Adding numbers can have the opposite effect if the new adds represent mediocrity. They can simply serve to water down the conference and to water down every member's schedule.

The problem for Big East expansion is that the only consistently reliable program in recent years within the footprint Is VCU. If it's Fox that's pushing expansion, then I think they'll be pushing their candidacy. They won't care about institutional fit. After that, they'll let the conference choose #12 - probably St Louis or Dayton. The only other way to enhance quality is to get radical and go outside the footprint for someone like Gonzaga, which probably isn't happening.

Do you say we're a quality league this year? I'd guess you'd say yes. Let's say Marquette loses to Wisconsin, New Mexico, then goes 10-8 in conference play. Record is 18-13. 4 seed, loses in SF. They are 19-14. Is that a lock? I sure don't think so. Especially since they'd be if in one of the last teams in- and those teams are ones that are most impacted by the conference tournaments with teams stealing bids. That's the danger of the 10 team league- especially when you are down in OOC.

[Chalmers0]

Gonzaga: The best basketball school but the logistics make it impossible I think, even if they join as basketball only.

SLU: I don't have faith in going forward, I wouldn't be upset if they were added and the fans I've seen on various message boards seem great, but I just don't think they will be any sort of improvement to the conference other than maybe bringing the Saint Louis market.

Richmond: I see them as just a slightly above average A10 school. I like Richmond, I really do but just don't want to see them in the Big East.

VCU - I just can't see a large public school being added, don't think their basketball program is THAT high that it is worth making them the lone big public school.

Dayton - I hate Dayton, I think that (most) of their fan base is beyond delusional and completely overrate their results of the last decade but honestly if I had to pick one realistic program to come it may be them. That's how against realignment I am right now. It also helps that and I would love to see them sit near the bottom of the standings.

UConn has been discussed a ton too and as much as I would actually like to have them in the conference, football kills any aspiration of that as well.

I honestly don't think there is a single team worth adding at the moment. I'm not completely against expansion but it has to actually benefit us.

[Bill Marsh]

Stay at 10. Pretty simple.

I agree, but it's not so simple. If the impetus for this is coming from Fox, as it likely is, then the big East has to pay attention to that if they want to continue collecting their revenue checks.

[stever20]

I think with VCU if they had another maybe even sweet 16, but definitely elite 8 or final 4 run- they would be awfully hard to ignore at that point. I mean 2 final 4's in 4 years would be mighty impressive.

[butlerguy03]

If the impetus for this is coming from Fox, as it likely is

Where is the fact about this? FOX probably is considering bigger things than who to add to the Big East. Seriously, NBA, MLB, Champions League, etc. are all up soon and available. Don't think #11 & #12 is at the top of the list.

[stever20]

If the impetus for this is coming from Fox, as it likely is

Where is the fact about this? FOX probably is considering bigger things than who to add to the Big East. Seriously, NBA, MLB, Champions League, etc. are all up soon and available. Don't think #11 & #12 is at the top of the list.

I know MLB isn't. Thought Champions League is gone as well(looked, thru 14-15 season). Really it's just NBA and Big ten available right now.... That's why Fox easily could be pushing it. Even with the other properties- like if we added VCU- I think Fox wouldn't mind showing say a Georgetown/VCU game.

[admin]

If the impetus for this is coming from Fox, as it likely is

Where is the fact about this? FOX probably is considering bigger things than who to add to the Big East. Seriously, NBA, MLB, Champions League, etc. are all up soon and available. Don't think #11 & #12 is at the top of the list.

Lots of conjecture about what Fox "wants", but no where have we ever seen anyone actually state facts about their wishes.

[Bill Marsh]

Why would a quality 10 team league get burned with only 3 bids? That only happens when quality is down and adding numbers doesn't improve quality. The only way to enhance the ability of,the conference to get bids is to bring in programs that enhance the quality of the league.

Last year the SEC got only 3 bids and the ACC got only four. In neither case was it because the conference was too small. In contrast a 9 member Mountain West got 5 bids. Size didn't stop them. The 10 member Big XII also got 5 bids. Again size did not stand in the way. Adding numbers can have the opposite effect if the new adds represent mediocrity. They can simply serve to water down the conference and to water down every member's schedule.

The problem for Big East expansion is that the only consistently reliable program in recent years within the footprint Is VCU. If it's Fox that's pushing expansion, then I think they'll be pushing their candidacy. They won't care about institutional fit. After that, they'll let the conference choose #12 - probably St Louis or Dayton. The only other way to enhance quality is to get radical and go outside the footprint for someone like Gonzaga, which probably isn't happening.

Do you say we're a quality league this year? I'd guess you'd say yes. Let's say Marquette loses to Wisconsin, New Mexico, then goes 10-8 in conference play. Record is 18-13. 4 seed, loses in SF. They are 19-14. Is that a lock? I sure don't think so. Especially since they'd be if in one of the last teams in- and those teams are ones that are most impacted by the conference tournaments with teams stealing bids. That's the danger of the 10 team league- especially when you are down in OOC.

Maybe I'm dense but I'm not following what you're saying

You can always concoct scenarios in which some team gets bumped, but it has nothing to do with being in a 10 team league. In fact a 10 team league guaranteed that the top teams all get to play each other twice a year. This year everyone gets 2 shots at Villanova. In all of the other 12+ team power conferences, which all utilize divisional play, that's not happening. Every time someone in this conference beats Villanova this year, that will be a high quality win.

There is absolutely no danger in a 10 team league unless you care about taw numbers. 5 teams for a 10 tram conference is exactly the same as 7 from a 14 team conference, 3 is almost identical to 5 in a 15 team ACC.

[stever20]

What I was saying about marquette- if they lose to Wisconsin, New Mexico, so 8-5 OOC. Then goes 10-8 in conference play and finishes 4th. Goes 1-1 in BET. They're 19-14. I'd say odds are pretty good that they get left out- especially if 2-3 bids got stolen in conference tourney play.

Raw numbers do matter. I mean, you know if we got 4 and ACC got 7 what would be said.... even though it's close to the same percentage... You never see percentage of teams mentioned, just the # of bids- listed in order of most to least.

As far as 10 teams- everyone getting a shot at nova- true. but also at same time, means everyone has to play DePaul and SH 2x.