Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[stever20]

as it currently is, Richmond has zero chance. We would look so small-minded taking them when a much stronger VCU team is in the same city- a team that absolutely controls their own city 100% more than the Spiders do.

[cr8onbb]

If it is up to the Big East, my bet would be on Dayton and SLU or no expansion at all. If Fox is truly calling the shots, VCU and Gonzaga might find their way in, but I would view that as a long shot given all the previously mentioned obstacles. I would think Richmond's chances are virtually zero. As far as Dayton and SLU being considered by many as ho hum adds, it might appear that way initially, but I would expect the extra exposure and revenue from the BE would help them improve their position going forward, especially with Dayton's already strong following. Just my thoughts, I would also be totally fine with keeping the league just as it is. Sure, there will be down years here and there, but we already have a very strong group of programs.

[redmen9194]

I like ten. It's a perfect number, especially for this league.

[stever20]

I think if the league gets burned by having 10 teams getting only 3 teams in tourney a time or two, and things will change quickly. The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

[Bluejay]

The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

Can you expound on this?

[stever20]

The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

Can you expound on this?

1 big thing is if you have a team like DePaul who last year was RPI 200, everyone has to see them 2x. Whereas with even 11 teams, you don't see that rpi 200 team 2nd time. Another thing is like with the A10, you can gerrymander your schedule, so your stronger schools play each other 2x and keep their rpi's higher. Can't do that with a double round robin.

Also, if you have 12 teams, you have realistically a lot better shot of getting at least 5 if not 6 teams in.

[billyjack]

The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

Can you expound on this?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /2013.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/con ... /2013.html

Simple, the more teams you have, the more bids you get.

Like the 13-team MEAC, where last year they got North Carolina A&T and... no one else.
Or like 12-team C-USA, where last year they got Memphis and... no one else.
Or the other 8 or so conferences with more than 10 schools that got one bid.

Just put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and repeat it out loud 237 times, and this opinion becomes a fact...!

[stever20]

wow so you are comparing us to the MEAC and CUSA.... brilliant.......

last year A10 was the 7th best conference- got 5 teams in. RPI of .5450. MVC was 8th best conference- got 2 teams in. RPI of .5383. SEC was 9th best conference- got 3 teams in. RPI of .5380. MVC got 20% of their teams in the tourney, while A10 got 31% of their teams in.

So, how could A10 get as many teams as the other 2 conferences combined, even with the fact that their RPI's were within a few points. It's not like the A10 was way better. Having the extra teams means you don't have to play the bad teams a 2nd time. And you can play the better teams more. Like last year- do you think it was an accident that Butler played SLU 2x as the only repeat team they played? Of course not.

[billyjack]

wow so you are comparing us to the MEAC and CUSA .... brilliant.......

last year A10 was the 7th best conference- got 5 teams in. RPI of .5450. MVC was 8th best conference- got 2 teams in. RPI of .5383. SEC was 9th best conference- got 3 teams in. RPI of .5380. MVC got 20% of their teams in the tourney, while A10 got 31% of their teams in.

So, how could A10 get as many teams as the other 2 conferences combined, even with the fact that their RPI's were within a few points. It's not like the A10 was way better. Having the extra teams means you don't have to play the bad teams a 2nd time. And you can play the better teams more. Like last year- do you think it was an accident that Butler played SLU 2x as the only repeat team they played? Of course not.

2013:
The 5th best conference got 5 bids with 10 teams (Big-12).
The 6th best conference got 5 bids with 9 teams (Mountain West).
The 7th best conference got 3 bids with 14 teams (SEC).
The 11th best conference got 1 bid with 12 teams (C-USA).

"Number of teams" and "NCAA bids" doesn't really have any connection. Conferences that stress quantity over quality have no advantage... and by trying to hide the Rices of the world from their brother Memphises, it shows that to be true.

[Bill Marsh]

I think if the league gets burned by having 10 teams getting only 3 teams in tourney a time or two, and things will change quickly. The round robin, which I know fans love, can hurt the league trying to get more teams in the tourney.

Why would a quality 10 team league get burned with only 3 bids? That only happens when quality is down and adding numbers doesn't improve quality. The only way to enhance the ability of,the conference to get bids is to bring in programs that enhance the quality of the league.

Last year the SEC got only 3 bids and the ACC got only four. In neither case was it because the conference was too small. In contrast a 9 member Mountain West got 5 bids. Size didn't stop them. The 10 member Big XII also got 5 bids. Again size did not stand in the way. Adding numbers can have the opposite effect if the new adds represent mediocrity. They can simply serve to water down the conference and to water down every member's schedule.

The problem for Big East expansion is that the only consistently reliable program in recent years within the footprint Is VCU. If it's Fox that's pushing expansion, then I think they'll be pushing their candidacy. They won't care about institutional fit. After that, they'll let the conference choose #12 - probably St Louis or Dayton. The only other way to enhance quality is to get radical and go outside the footprint for someone like Gonzaga, which probably isn't happening.

Note to Billy Jack: sorry to be posting essentially the same thing as you did. I began composing before your post was up, was interrupted, came back and completed my thoughts, only to find when I posted that you had already said what I did. Oh, well, I guess we were thinking along the same lines.