Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bulldog_Muskie]

I believe Fox is calling the shots. They're the one who offered the massive contract and are trying to launch FS1 and FS2 with BE as the main headliner first couple years, More teams means more games, ratings, and if the teams are good a better and more desirable product.

I don't see Dayton being added due to several factors, mostly because they've been terrible for 20 years but also because of Fox's involvement. It just doesn't make sense to add a relatively weak program in a market that has considerable overlap with both Cincy and Indianapolis. If they had the pedigree of a Gonzaga or the recent success of VCU then maybe they'd be more attractive but we have little to gain other than diluting the conference by adding the Flyers.

[adoraz11]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and it appears we are on the same page that adding vcu and gonzaga would be best. I agree we shouldn't get too large. I think 12 is an ideal number for us.

Edit: in reply to Bill Marsh

[Bill Marsh]

I believe Fox is calling the shots. They're the one who offered the massive contract and are trying to launch FS1 and FS2 with BE as the main headliner first couple years, More teams means more games, ratings, and if the teams are good a better and more desirable product.

I don't see Dayton being added due to several factors, mostly because they've been terrible for 20 years but also because of Fox's involvement. It just doesn't make sense to add a relatively weak program in a market that has considerable overlap with both Cincy and Indianapolis. If they had the pedigree of a Gonzaga or the recent success of VCU then maybe they'd be more attractive but we have little to gain other than diluting the conference by adding the Flyers.

It's hard to ignore that fan base. If we rank the attendance of conference teams last year and include Dayton they had the 3rd highest attendance among that group of schools - and #4 wasn't close. That was a typical year for Dayton, nothing fluky about it.

Ohio is one of the ten top states in the country in population, but has only one school from a power conference, I.e. Ohio State. So, there's room for more than one program to be successful in that state. There are smaller states with multiple programs achieving success, competing on a big time level, beginning with Indiana right next door. Dayton is a private school, not a state commuter school. As such, it doesn't draw its student body just from around the immediate area; the interest in Dayton is more regional than that a, so I'm not really concerned about market overlap since their market is larger than southwestern Ohio. And frankly there is something to be said for generating interest by building rivalries within the country. Cincinnati-Dayton is obviously a natural.

Like you, I'm also concerned about their lack of success over a reasonably long period of time. Something is wrong with that picture when a program has that much fan support but can't put a winning product on the flow. As such, it was the right thing to do to pass them over in building the original group of ten schools. They have something to prove. VCU is a no brainer IMO, but if the conference is going to go to 12, who else is there? At least they bring that strong attendance and fan support in a way that no one else does. That alone has to put them on the short list. They must show that they've figured out how to build a winning program, or I would agree that their presence would just dilute the conference. But they should be watched.

I like the fact that they are located farther east in the Midwest group. Frankly you could drive to some of the eastern cities from there. Although it's a long drive, crazier things have been done. With that rabid fan base, theta puts them in better position to support the Big East tournament in March, which is a top priority for the conference. Just one more little item in their favor.

[Bill Marsh]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and it appears we are on the same page that adding vcu and gonzaga would be best. I agree we shouldn't get too large. I think 12 is an ideal number for us.

Edit: in reply to Bill Marsh

No question that those would be the two best additions as quality basketball programs. We completely agree on who the 2 best programs out there are.

I just don't see how it's logistically feasible to add Gonzaga as a singleton. I've proposed adding them with BYU as a travel partner, which could at least make the travel somewhat more manageable. If not Gonzaga, then I'd add VCU, but I can't figure out who to add with them. With UMass rising up in the polls maybe they're worth a look although they currently seem to be committed to football and the MAC.I'd also look at Dayton if they've finally figured it out although they're a shaky program at best. St Louis is the fall back candidate but I have my doubts about them too. The Jesuits will probably collude to get them in. They have a voting block of 4 votes, which is a heck of a start if someone wants to get their candidate in.

[Bulldog_Muskie]

I always had the perception that Dayton had a large commuter population and that they were a relatively concentrated fan base, never really cared to investigate though!

[Bill Marsh]

I always had the perception that Dayton had a large commuter population and that they were a relatively concentrated fan base, never really cared to investigate though!

Like a lot of Catholic colleges, this once was the case, but currently almost half of Dayton's enrollment is out of state students. And even with in state students, we're talking about many who come from other parts of Ohio, not just the southwest corner of the state. Dayton is the largest private university in the state and it's been around for a long time, so they have a lot of alumni around the state and elsewhere around the Midwest, I don't know what their reach is for TV ratings, but I'm sure that it's more than the greater Dayton area or even just the Cincinnati-Dayton corner of Ohio.

[BillikensWin]

Normally, I'd come up with a long-winded reply on why SLU should be in the picture, but the way this year's team is playing, it doesn't play out.

SLU had one chance and didn't get in.

Good luck to the Big East teams going forward.

[Dew]

Back to my earlier question, why would the Big East expand? Everyone says Fox is going to want it to have more TV inventory. I disagree. Fox is going to pursue the NBA package which would mean less TV games for the Big East, rather than the need for more. I don't think Fox wants to dilute the product they have committed $500M to by adding schools without a national reputation or history of success.

[billyjack]

Since this just a rough discussion...

Low on my list behind 4+ other schools, but Siena is a remote expansion possibility if everything breaks right for them. They have a loose cannon for a coach, but he had built the Loyola Greyhound program from nothing. Also, Siena has the Times Union/ Pepsi Center and city of Albany to themselves, under 2 hours from NYC.

They regularly average 6k even though they play a MAAC schedule. They've had 2 home games so far... drew 11k opening night while hosting Albany... drew 5600 while hosting St Bonaventure on Tues Nov 18th. This solid attendance would need to translate into a BET presence. Struggling this year again with a semi-difficult schedule.

Siena would need expansion delayed several years while also needing their loose cannon coach to quickly rattle off some excellent seasons like Fran McCafferty had. Also, it would help somewhat if Boeheim's retirement coincided with this, while also having the Orangemen suck under heir apparent Hopkins.

So Siena would need like 8 low percentage things to fall their way, but they have the "location" thing locked up.

[cm5yz6]

There is all of 0% chance Gonzaga joins this league (for just so many reasons it isn't worth listing). I'd give VCU about a 5% chance, only because, well you never know.

Its going to be some combination of St. Louis, Richmond, and UD - and rightfully so. Possibly some powerhouse private team emerges on the East coast in the next 4-5 years that is not currently in a Big East market, but I don't see it.