Big East Bad Loses

[redmen9194]

I just went through the schedules and compiled the league's bad losses. There are essentially two categories. The first is where the current RPI Disparity is so great that is is a total black mark on the record. The second category is the "eye test" one. This is where on paper the Big East team should have won but the RPI disparity does not make it a bad loss at this time. It could become one by the end of the season or not. It's simpy one that doesn't look great on the record. I was surprised to see the Big East has very few bad losses. In the RPI category, which is the real major one, we have four:

Southern Miss / DePaul
Northeastern / Georgetown
Mercer / Seton Hall
FDU / Seton Hall

There are three additional games that are not necessarily bad losses RPI wise yet, but they could be as the season goes on and they are games where we should have won. We have three of those:

Penn State / St. John's
Arizona State / Marquette
San Diego State / Creighton

The Penn State loss should move into the RPI bad loss list at some point unless Penn State does surprisingly well in the Big Ten. The other two may only be bad in the sense that our top two teams should beat teams such as these.

[stever20]

Um, the DePaul/Southern Miss isn't bad loss for us. Southern Miss #32 in the RPI right now. If DePaul had won- that would have been a bad loss for them....

[Bluejay]

Arizona State / Marquette
San Diego State / Creighton

I don't think either of the above two losses is a bad loss. Both ASU and SDSU are tournament or bubble teams at the least. SDSU could very well compete for the MWC title.

A bad loss is a loss to a bad team IMO.

[redmen9194]

You know, I saw that. But I am holding the league to a bit of a higher standard and a Big Eastbteam should beat Southern Miss every time out. I'll move it though.

[OutlawWales]

Um, the DePaul/Southern Miss isn't bad loss for us. Southern Miss #32 in the RPI right now. If DePaul had won- that would have been a bad loss for them....

There is also very little or no likelihood that Creighton's loss to SDSU or Marquette's loss to Arizona State would be considered a bad loss by anyone, eye test or RPI or any other way.

St. John's loss to Penn State is a bad loss. Period. It doesn't have to wait to "become" one -- that's a game that St. John's should win nine out of every ten times the teams play.

I think the only bad losses so far are Seton Hall's two, Georgetown's one, and St. John's one.

[stever20]

Um, the DePaul/Southern Miss isn't bad loss for us. Southern Miss #32 in the RPI right now. If DePaul had won- that would have been a bad loss for them....

There is also very little or no likelihood that Creighton's loss to SDSU or Marquette's loss to Arizona State would be considered a bad loss by anyone, eye test or RPI or any other way.

St. John's loss to Penn State is a bad loss. Period. It doesn't have to wait to "become" one -- that's a game that St. John's should win nine out of every ten times the teams play.

I think the only bad losses so far are Seton Hall's two, Georgetown's one, and St. John's one.

I think one that could come up- Xavier's loss yesterday vs USC. Don't think USC is supposed to be all that great.

[redmen9194]

Arizona State / Marquette
San Diego State / Creighton

I don't think either of the above two losses is a bad loss. Both ASU and SDSU are tournament or bubble teams at the least. SDSU could very well compete for the MWC title.

A bad loss is a loss to a bad team IMO.

They are bad losses. Here's why. First, ASU is really not a great team. It's a middling Pac12 team. Marquette should have beaten them. Same with Ceighton / SDSU. We haven to think of ourselves in the way other conferences think of themselves. The top teams in the league should beat mid majors. Just like Duke and Cuse in the ACC or Michigan State and Ohio State in the Big Ten. If we are going to be a top conference, we need to think about these games in those terms.

[stever20]

Arizona State / Marquette
San Diego State / Creighton

I don't think either of the above two losses is a bad loss. Both ASU and SDSU are tournament or bubble teams at the least. SDSU could very well compete for the MWC title.

A bad loss is a loss to a bad team IMO.

They are bad losses. Here's why. First, ASU is really not a great team. It's a middling Pac12 team. Marquette should have beaten them. Same with Ceighton / SDSU. We haven to think of ourselves in the way other conferences think of themselves. The top teams in the league should beat mid majors. Just like Duke and Cuse in the ACC or Michigan State and Ohio State in the Big Ten.

We'll see about San Diego St- but in recent years they've been top 15 team. You focus way too much on major mid major and don't look at individual teams. I mean, a loss to Wichita St this year would hurt a lot less than a loss to even say a Iowa St team.

[OutlawWales]

Arizona State / Marquette
San Diego State / Creighton

I don't think either of the above two losses is a bad loss. Both ASU and SDSU are tournament or bubble teams at the least. SDSU could very well compete for the MWC title.

A bad loss is a loss to a bad team IMO.

They are bad losses. Here's why. First, ASU is really not a great team. It's a middling Pac12 team. Marquette should have beaten them.

ASU has some great players, though. ASU will compete and be decent all year, and nobody is going to look at a loss to that team as a bad loss unless something unexpected happens and ASU just tanks and loses the majority of its games. (And if that criteria counts, every loss so far could be a bad one).

Same with Ceighton / SDSU. We haven to think of ourselves in the way other conferences think of themselves. The top teams in the league should beat mid majors. Just like Duke and Cuse in the ACC or Michigan State and Ohio State in the Big Ten.

As a fan of a school that was called "mid major" last year, that attitude is ridiculous and harmful. Yeah, there are a lot of "mid major" teams that every big conference school should consider itself better than. But you can't lump all of them into that category and automatically say that the top teams in our league should beat every single team in a mid major conference every single time out. Gonzaga is a mid major -- losing to Gonzaga would not be a bad loss in anyone's eyes. As much as I despise them with every fiber of my being, Wichita State is a borderline top 10 team. Losing to them would not be a bad loss in anyone's eyes. Last year Creighton and Butler and X were mid majors -- losing to them was not a "bad" loss no matter who you were last year.

San Diego State is a program that is universally well respected and that beats BCS programs every year. Add in that this was pretty much a home game for them, in terms of location and fan support and officiating down the stretch, and consider the way they very nearly beat top 3 Arizona earlier in the year, and it's pretty hard to spin that as a bad loss.

[stever20]

Also- if Georgetown had lost to VCU- it wouldn't have been looked at as a bad loss in any fashion....... Like I said before- the line between major/mid major has blurred so much now. Before you would never see but 1-2 mid majors get in the tourney. Now, it's a whole hell of a lot more. That trend doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon.